Using lossless data compression for audio?

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:10 am

Are any of you using lossless data compression for archiving and/or sending audio files over the net? If so , what are you using and how? If not , why?

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:31 am

Tracktion has integrated support for FLAC files, which I use sometimes. I have also succesfully used the Monkeys Audio lossless codec (.ape files): http://www.monkeysaudio.com/

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:52 pm

IIRs wrote:

Tracktion has integrated support for FLAC files, which I use sometimes. I have also succesfully used the Monkeys Audio lossless codec (.ape files): http://www.monkeysaudio.com/

I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 pm

FLAC....really? I use that a fair bit. Kristal is Wav, Flac or Ogg. Since I want to stick 50mins of recs into a flash drive with plenty of other stuff on it, I use Flac.
Can't say I had anything to compare it to, though opening Flac files, wow...foobar has no troubles but foobar is no use. VLC can play it...but not save it as a separate stream. Nothing I have can open it, except Kristal.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:09 am

J_Carlo wrote:

I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

That was a bug if so. Lossless means there is NO difference.

I just tried a test, which I encourage you to try yourself: I imported a 16 bit wav file into Tracktion, then exported it again as a 16 bit flac file with no other changes. I reimported that flac file to another track, flipped the phase and hit play... the two tracks cancelled out to total silence.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:14 am

Codemonkey wrote:

VLC can play it...but not save it as a separate stream. Nothing I have can open it, except Kristal.

There's a winamp plug available for flac files...

Rar compression is also suprisingly good at squashing down wav file sizes. But the files can't be played directly of course, they need extracting first.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:04 am

I couldn't care much less for winamp, it's no use to me. Foobar2000 can play them, it's opening them to edit/mix with that's the problem. Nothing except Kristal can read them AND save them as wavs.

Oh, and the Rar idea...that's GENIUS. I'll be trying that for sure.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:46 am

Codemonkey wrote:

Nothing except Kristal can read them AND save them as wavs..

Tracktion?

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:40 am

I don't have that.
Grammatical screw up on my part, sorry.

"Nothing I have" is what I meant to say.

How good does the rar compression get? Obviously it depends but on the whole?

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:48 am

Its free to try, why not give it a go?

AFAIR its nearly as good as the dedicated audio codecs like flac or ape, with the added advantage that you can archive a whole project's worth of audio files into a single .rar file. (Tracktion lets you do the same thing but with flac compression instead via Tracktion Archive files.)

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:53 am

In this world of mega-sized hard drives (just bought a WD 500GB for $99 yesterday), 5Mbps Internet Connections, 8 gig thumb drives for $39, and 160GB iPods, why are we still worried about various compression formats.

My beef isn't with lossy or lossless compression. It's with their universality or lack thereof.

I'll be damned if I'm installing WinAmp, Foobar, iTunes, MonkeyPoo or whatever on my audio workstation. My audio machine has Audio Programs (Sequoia, Reason, FL, Garritan, Finale, and Plug-ins) only. Many of these software packages require you to use resources on your computer even when they're not officially in use.

Not only that, when someone sends me a FLAC file to work with, I just scratch my head and ask, "Would it have been too hard to send me a friggin WAV file? Afterall, I have over 2 Terabytes of storage left on my FTP server!"

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1881 Location: NYC

I agree, the time it takes to mess with this is waisted time being that hard drives are so cheap now. And in 5 years you'll probably have to redo everything again so you can play them.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:21 am

Thing is, my flash drive is only 1GB and if I did get an 4GB one I'd partition it, install Ubuntu on 3GB worth, and fill the rest with crap.
Except that I think Ubuntu won't transfer well if you install it using an Intel and load on an Athlon.
XP fails totally, Ubuntu just goes to command prompt.

Didn't know Traction was free (even to try). Might do it later, once I escape some lectures.

Good about RAR, I actually have a copy of the program on my flash, installed to it (minus the shell) and I can use it on any PC. Thus...rar it is.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:24 am

IIRs wrote:

J_Carlo wrote:

I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

That was a bug if so. Lossless means there is NO difference.

I just tried a test, which I encourage you to try yourself: I imported a 16 bit wav file into Tracktion, then exported it again as a 16 bit flac file with no other changes. I reimported that flac file to another track, flipped the phase and hit play... the two tracks cancelled out to total silence.

Tried the nulling test , did WaveLab's file comparer and full analysis. Best of all , did double blind tests with a friend who is also interested in the subject. 100% of the time we could tell the reconstucted files form the source. Only exception was WavPack.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:30 am

Audible silence (as in you hear nothing) or actual zero samples?

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