Need to Re-Record Our Demo Please Offer Advice!

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:47 pm

UPDATED SONGS SINCE ORIGINAL POST
http://www.soundclick.com/leftajaruk
www.ursession.com/leftajar

Remixing the demo with my new monitors so getting a much better sound now, any advice on how it sounds now would be appreciated

Thanks
Andy

Original post below
================
Tracks available to sample on
www.myspace.com/leftajar
Don't worry it's a really simple myspace with fast loading times!

After much quotes and reviews we decided to re-record our demo

We need help with recommendations towards some good mic's which would help us develop the initial recording as well as any tips during the production stage or any tips towards how make the songs better

current recording setup consists of mainly Sm58's for vocals, some 57's for drums and guitars and a set of drum mic's we picked up for about £150ish, we tried using the condensors from the drum mic kit for some of the vocals and got good/better results maybe we should invest in some good condensors?

I think we could stretch to maybe £300 total to improve our gear

I have access to nearly all music production programs so anything which you think will help please don't hesitate to mention it! I am currently mixing in Nuendo 3 and am comfortable using this for the re-record.

I really appreciate any feedback and look forward to any comments

Drums recorded through a Tascam 2488 mixing/recording desk along with most of distorted guitars, vocals done through my pc into an audiophile 2496 soundcard and an "art" preamp

Thank you in advance for any support
Confused

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:32 pm

I can't access myspace from here (blocked) - Are the tracks on http://ursession.com/Leftajar from your demo? There's not a thing wrong with SM58 mics on vocals. The sound of these tracks is not a matter of the microphones you are using - it's acoustics, recording technique, and mixing. If you can't get good sound out of a 58, then don't waste your money on more expensive mics. They won't solve your problems.

You need acoustic treatments where you are recording your drums, and technique. What is your mix environment like? What are you using to monitor when mixing?

Read up on mic placement and drum techniques - get clean, clear tracks with the gear you have, and come back when you start mixing - we'll be able to help you get the most out of your tracks.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:50 pm

I heard the songs on Mysapce and I definitely agree with Zemlin. The acoustics of your room is your biggest problem. Don't get new gear. A "better" vocal mic will sound worse in a bad room. At least with a 58 you can eat the mic and take the room out of the equation as much as possible. But that's not really the answer. You want to treat the space you have or move to a better space. If you are just recording a demo, don't rule out borrowing or renting a space. You might go to the studio build forum here and tell them about your situation and see if there are suggestions.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:00 pm

Definitely about technique here I think. Back up from the mic when you sing. Try to stay between 4-6" away. The vox are distorting. Drums sound like they could be tuned. Try a 57 almost on the top skin near the edge pointed across the skin toward your lap. One mic on the kick and just the overheads and just leave it at that. There's too much verb on the snare for my taste. I would rather hear it dry. The doubling of the vocals is not tight enough for you to pull it off. Either make it really off to the point of adlib or really tighten it up and bring down the level of the second vocal.

I really think there is still a place for Producers in the world. I don't mean "producer"/engineer/mucicians but a producer who only looks at the performance aspect of the recording. Someone who is going to get the best performance from you and who is not afraid to say "do it again".

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:46 pm

It's not bad. I think you need a better room to record the drums in. It sounds like you recorded them in a basement or something, try to see if you can find a more spacious and acoustically oriented room with less harsh reverberation. Also, the electric guitars sounded a little warbly like it was recorded on tape?

Other than those points I think you've got some really good tunes and I think they've got some potential. Good luck!

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:42 pm

The hi hats are really prominent and harsh in the mix and there seems to be a lack of low end. I agree with hueseph in that it sounds like it's an issue with recording techniques.

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to turn some of the double vocal portions into a gang vocal kinda thing with more voices so the difference between the voices will sound appropriate.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:13 am

Really appreciate your responses!

You may have just massivly saved us hours because we were looking to go back to re-recording stage but in the SAME SPACE - the back room of a local pub, it is quite large but has wooden floors and a pretty low roof which may be a problem?

The vocals were all recorded in my bedroom but I think the MAIN issue is that I was mixing on hifi speakers and not monitors *hangs head* I've got some Tannoy Reveal 5A's coming anyminute now *waits for UPS van*

Would you say it is pointless recording again in the same space?

Also with regards to drum recording;
we used 2 overheads, 1 snare, 1 kick, and one on all 3 toms
Would you suggest it more useful to go for
2overheads, 2 snare, 2 kick and let the toms be picked up in the overheads? Would you go for hi overheads or quite low ones?

Really appreciate anymore comments

Final comment is that I'm really glad I didn't buy the Auido Technia now reading your comments. that would have been a nice waste of cash. I'm sure the Tannoy's are money well spent though? Hopefully

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:17 am

Also to add during the recording process I was using some Sennheiser Headphones (proper headphones not earphones) but I am hoping I can use the Tannoy's from now on

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:13 am

And thirdly, would it be better to surround the drums with large foam "walls" or leave them open?

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:20 am

Moving pads (quilts) can be useful to taming the acoustics for recording. Hard floors pretty much the norm in studios - the walls and ceilings do the sound control. I'm not going to say it would be a waste to record in the same space, because I don't know how the drums were mic'd. If it's the best space you have, get some moving pads and hang those around the drum kit to create some barriers between the reflective walls and the mics. Get the overheads as close to the kit as you can to keep the room out of the drums. Two overheads fer sher for recording - want that stereo spread.

I generally use XY for overheads, but I'm no drum pro, so consider it an option, but that's all. The "Recorderman" technique for micing drums seems reasonable - do a search and check that out.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:48 am

Thanks Zemlin I will update once we've re-recorded! Any other info anyone has is still appreciated!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:49 am

After playing around with the Recorderman setup for several months I've decided to abandon it whenever I'm micing the snare and kick separately. The recorderman setup is designed to get the best kick and snare sound out of the overheads - so it is great for a two-mic setup. But I've decided that if I have the kick and snare miced separately I should focus my overheads on getting the most balanced cymbal and tom sounds. Even when my mix is mostly the overheads (as it often is with a jazz drummer) I can add in enough kick and snare to make up for any phase cancellation in the overheads. Still have a lot to learn on this, but I'm getting there.

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:38 am

http://www.soundclick.com/leftajaruk
www.ursession.com/leftajar

Demo Sounding better now, got some Tannoy 5A's to help with the mixing stage

Any Input on whats happening now, anything which needs changing or redoing?

Any input appreciated! Thanks

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