I recently posted in regards to recoridng my bands in EP half in the studio the other half at my place and doing the final mix back in the studio am currently in the process of editing the drum takes and wondering whether i should align the drums so that they are PERFECTLY in time or whether to not interfere with the natural human feel...
Our drummer is very good, and the average listener would not be able to notice any inconsistancy... but having the recording tools that i have and control of the overall product... i thought i should definately consider it..
We are going for Bon Jovi / Aerosmith / Guns n Roses style 'Glam Rock' production and ultimately want a fairly tight sound... i would think that very few bands these days record albums without editing the drums to have perfect timing... i could be wrong??
Our drummer is very good, and the average listener would not be able to notice any inconsistancy...
Isn't it the answer to your question?
Do the mix at the studio first then listen to it and decide where the timing is bad and should be fixed. You can edit raw tracks at home and swap files at the studio. This way you'll edit only where it is necessary. If you have to edit those drum tracks before the mix than remember to listen to the whole song (not only the drums) while making decisions where to cut and turn the click track off.
igotnosmoke Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Melbourne, Australia
hahaha.. yes and no... i too was a drummer in a past life, so i 'can' notice the difference which drives me nuts... and not sure how to go about it having the responsibility of producing the album..
BobRogers Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 1075
Location: Blacksburg, VA
If you want to play to a drum machine, fire your drummer. I can't imagine putting up with a drummer (or any musician) and then quantizing their music. Playing drums exactly at the same millisecond every beat, every measure isn't "perfect" it's "mechanical." If that's what you like, more power to you, but I hate it.
mhutch Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 61
Location: The Knife
I hate what quantization, in the wrong hands, does to drums. I've worked for 12 years learning and perfecting "feel" down to the nanosecond. This subjection is certainly nothing I can verbalize, and is all the more beyond the scope of a computer algorithm.
For instance, a single kick drum accent in a pattern may need to fall in between the boundaries of complex subdivisions, like between 64th notes, to be emotionally relevant. Or a fill may need to be "crammed" for the first half, while the last half needs timepiece accuracy.
Humanization doesn't necessarily help, either: if I'm making several batches of cookies, I might need to test each batch to make sure the dough has enough sugar. Surely not every batch will need the same amount: "We have a machine that can sweeten it for you. No, it can't add tablespoons, but it can randomly choose either to add a teaspoon or a cup."
And even this, of course, is assuming the quantization is seamless enough so as not to have artifacts in the decays of the instruments. I recently did a recording with a buddy of mine who paid for me to go into a "real" studio to record some drums. I labored for two hours on a particularly difficult song so I had everything just as I wanted it. The recordist destructively quantized all my parts without my permission. What was once a performance I thought was going to go at the front of my portfolio is now an anonymous contribution I made to a friend's recording.
If I want to be picky with drums--particularly my own performances--I edit by hand. Every hit that I want changed. I may scour through 50 different takes and 1,200 different edits, but it's worth it to me to have a performance that sounds both authentic and ideal. Your drummer may feel likewise.
patrick_like_static Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 417
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Quantizing drums? If anything, I the don't quantize them at all (I never have). I'll actually shove them around a bit just for the feel I want. For instance, I find that sometimes some drummers will push the beat. I'll take the snare drum and delay it a couple of milliseconds, to put it on the backside of the beat. Completely changes the character of the song. So I believe in manipulating them for the feel not to be taken as a computer decided function. That is, unless your music is really not worthy of being produced by or, being listened to by human beings? Which is most.
Now if you are into that Steely Dan kind of production? You may want that kind of consistent accuracy for its repetitive nature. For its repetitive nature. For its repetitive nature. For its repetitive nature. Can we try that take again? For its repetitive nature. I love that stuff but I'm not that kind of anal girl (quite frankly I would appreciate it if you use my vagina instead). But I could be?
I want a human feeling performance. If I wanted to listen to a drum machine? I wouldn't purchase the lousy recording to begin with. What? You have to prove what you learned in " How To Make A Bad Recording School"?
Never went to school for this.
Ms. Remy Ann David
malamikigo Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Vancouver, BC
I can't stand listening to recordings with massively edited drums, full of drum replacement and quantizing. There's a studio locally near where I live that is infamous (with me) for their (i think) shitty drum work, but are a fairly big studio in terms of the bands they do.
Malamikigo....that's what's popular now days remember that, its all about what sells and this 'sound' sells;)
Can they do that sound live? Talking about those afflicted chaps.
Sounds like a Spector "Wall of Sound" but for new-age 2 bit rock(or whatever) groups. Sounds like the music in skateboarding games.
TheGreatAmericanSlum Recording Org Pro Audio Group
I firmly believe that this sort of thing is always and completely circumstantial.
1) I think most drummers (and musicians for that matter) are completely inexperienced in approaching any sort of cohesive or organic feel, especially in the studio. In this (as in most) case(s) your drummer would never really realize that you made quantizing changes in order to tighten the track and would, if anything, feel more confident in having achieved a 'stellar' performance I wouldn't worry about offending anyone in this case.
2) Many times, as mentioned earlier in this post, certain "inconsistencies" become quite happy accidents in the studio and you end up changing the song to accommodate them. Example: my band has had many songs that start w/ acoustic guide tracks, then we'll add some percussion, then we'll go for that solid drum track and certain little feel changes, fills and accents in the drum track will cause us to go back and re-do everything we had to that point to fit the drums. This ends up sounding like sweet sweet rainy day sex.
I agree w/ Patrick above as well, however, especially in a studio situation w/ a drummer coming in to just get drums on a track. If a proper drummer comes in and slaves to get a take and then you scrap it or quantize the whole thing it's a bit demoralizing and offensive. I personally stray as far as possible from that sort of recording situation myself. After all, there's a reason The Beatles didn't just invite Jimmie Nicol in to do some tracks while Ringo was sick!!!
MHO, and my 3rd post!!!
_________________ "There's no black and white, left and right to me anymore; there's only up and down and down is very close to the ground. And I'm trying to go up without thinking about anything trivial" -BD
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
For more information on advertising, investing ,
merging
or any other ideas you may have for this community" Feedback
Pro Audio forums, audio reviews and all the moderating here is
volunteer. Please remember no-one is being paid to be here or deliver
hot coffee. Play Fair, be polite and considerate to others. Title your
topics properly and do not slander anyone. Also, if you love Recording
Org and would like to make any donation in support of this site, please
contact the Feedback link on the side bar and admin would be more than
happy to add any contribution gift to the RO kitty. Give by becoming an
RO Club Member and get a little better RO options. Read this before your post here:Recording
Org Disclaimer
I wouldn't worry about offending anyone in this case.
