Help with delay effects

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:11 pm

Hey guys,

I have made an attemp of a song called Tumble so far it is only 1min 40 seconds odd long. As I am struggling with the main solo which I'll probably be back with more needed hints and tips for it at a later date Razz

I've done all the instruments myself drums were done via midi, and have done the song by ear only. (kinda have no choice as no one has tabbed the song for guitar)!

Original version is here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m-f7KNB5PYE

My version:
https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D3549FF77713B0C0

I was told that my delay soudned really obvious that it was added in "after" recording which was done very dry, which im told is the best way to do it. How ever I am not sure how obvious it really is with the delay to the original as I have been listening to ths song so much fine tuning everything, so was hoping you guys could give me some pointers as to how to improve the delay if it is at all needed.

Also if there is any thing else I should alter to match the song, it is most welcome, I am some what limited by my guitar playing skills on the fast bit Razz

But i think I am pretty close on the tone.

Things I plan on changing is the intro harmonics whcih I know ain't entirely indentical and mostly re-recording off notes from the guitar.

Hope you have some help you can provide! Thanks everyone in advance for any tips! Smile

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:57 pm

Well I for one think you did a fine job.

The echo on Joe's guitar is more reminiscent of a classic analog tape, regenerative echo on the order of 81 to 100 ms with a little regeneration to make the echo repeat a few times. It's also high and low pass filtered to narrow the bandwidth of the echo.

What I found most fascinating is that your example is as Monophonic as You Tube. Your example is not on You Tube and should be in stereo. You Tube is not in stereo, for anything. It's a shame. Bunch of morons if you ask me! What don't they understand about stereo sound with pictures? Disney has been doing it since the 1930s! And saving bandwidth is a lousy excuse. To me, it makes You Tube almost worthless.

Your Tube Not Mine
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:05 am

LOL, I have the real song on my itunes, but not really sure what you mean by monophonic as such I hear the difference between itunes and youtube but not sure how I fix such an issue in nuendo. I have some things panned slightly L and others slightly R. Just not extremely.

Hmm, I'm also wondering how do you high and low pass filter on just the delay? Or are you referring to the guitar melody as a whole?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:35 pm

If your delay plugin doesn't have HPF/LPF built in, well, you're stuck for adding that and I wouldn't worry about it.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:11 am

Codemonkey wrote:

If your delay plugin doesn't have HPF/LPF built in, well, you're stuck for adding that and I wouldn't worry about it.

Do you know any freeware good quality delay plugins (vsti).. or cheap ones on the market ? I have to worry, i want to get it as exact as possible Razz

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:05 am

those old analog delays
especially the stomp boxes
use a (BB) Bucket Brigade method

as Remy said
have a limited frequency response
and tend to distort

the distortion gets worse for each repeat

and that timing of "81 to 100 ms" can be less than stable with each repeat/regeneration coming quicker ... (the delay gets shorter)
at least I think that what happens

it's all part of what makes those analog delays different from the digital delays

a bit like analog synths in that
it's what they get wrong that makes them cool

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:17 am

I don't quite follow with the regeneration stuff..not sure what you mean by it.

Do you mean like a delay... then a second delay comes in slightly quicker after the first delay?

so like:
source ............delay...delay

With the gaps between the words = ms amount ?

So is it not really possible to mimic the delay digitally as similiar to Joe's method there must be a decent digital plugin that can mimic that analogue delay ?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:28 am

sirchick wrote:

Do you know any freeware good quality delay plugins (vsti).. or cheap ones on the market ? I have to worry, i want to get it as exact as possible Razz

Kjaerhus Classic Delay. Analogue delay emulation. HPF/LPF a generally good all around delay plug. Not awesome but good for the price.

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/download.php

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:44 am

Thankyou hueseph.

How do you guys hear the difference between these delays, its quite brilliant how you can hear it. I would not have a clue.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:16 pm

sirchick wrote:

Do you mean like a delay... then a second delay comes in slightly quicker after the first delay?
source ............delay...delay
So is it not really possible to mimic the delay digitally as similiar to Joe's method there must be a decent digital plugin that can mimic that analogue delay ?

yes

simple digital delay
source..........delay..........delay..........delay

analog BB delay
source..........[color=Brown]delay[color].......[color=Dark Red]delay[color]....[color=Red]delay[color]

I can't get the clor thing to work
I wanted the colors to show the more distorted delays

so without colors

analog BB delay
source..........delay.......delay....delay

I think I remember reading about a Plug for the Tel-Ray and it might be ok

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:57 pm

source..........delay.......delay....delay

You forgot the / in the [/color]

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:59 pm

d'oh

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:39 am

I see! I can hear it slightly now that I know what im listening for. Thanks for the help! Smile

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:56 am

KVRAudio (not to plug (not intending a pun) the site, but it) has stashes of plugins in their database. Set to free, commercial, whatever (use the advanced search).
Also, effects are VSTs, a VSTi is a virtual instrument.

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:30 am

Codemonkey wrote:

KVRAudio (not to plug (not intending a pun) the site, but it) has stashes of plugins in their database. Set to free, commercial, whatever (use the advanced search).
Also, effects are VSTs, a VSTi is a virtual instrument.

Argh thankyou for the infomation! Smile

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