Mic/cable issues..please help!!

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

from what ive been reading, i see that i should probably instead use an impedance matching transformer for what im trying to do?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:50 am

Probably a mic preamp would work better. Impedence is only part of the picture. For what I assume you're doing, any old preamp would do. Those ART "tube" pres are dirt cheap. Around $30 street. Of course you get what you pay for but if you're just using it for practice, it will do.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:33 am

hueseph wrote:

Probably a mic preamp would work better. Impedence is only part of the picture. For what I assume you're doing, any old preamp would do. Those ART "tube" pres are dirt cheap. Around $30 street. Of course you get what you pay for but if you're just using it for practice, it will do.

cool.. thanks..ill take a look into it

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:10 pm

Well, that adapter LOOKS like an XLR-TRS adapter, but it claims:

"Trustworthy balanced-to-unbalanced signal conversion."

So, apparently they must have it wired internally to do the job properly.

Is that Crate a guitar amp? Are you plugging into the jack you usually plug a guitar into? Or, are you plugging into something labelled "Line In"? You really haven't answered those questions yet, and they are important.

Tell us what model Crate it is, and where you plug in to?

Kapt.Krunch
(D.D.S. pulling teeth). Shocked

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:28 pm

BTW, after all this...you said you are "testing it" in the Crate. You have nothing else to plug it into, or do you plan to actually try to use a mic in a guitar amp? If that's the case, you might as well just use the old mic that worked, because you gain nothing with this one. You could plug a $5000 mic through a $10,000 preamp and into a guitar amp, and it'll STILL sound terrible on vocals.

I have a suspicion this is what you are going for, otherwise you'd have something else to plug into. And, even if it was something like a Crate Taxi, that has an XLR input, I believe, so I don't think you have one of those.

Am I guessing correctly? If so, don't try too hard to get any useable vocals out of a guitar amp....ain't gonna happen because of the way a guitar amp's frequency range is designed, and because of the lack of a high-frequency driver.

Also, you COULD use an XLR-1/4" transformer unit, which they make (even Radio Shack used to carry them), but only if you plugged into the Instrument In.

Almost seems like a lot of trouble IF that's what you plan, and if you have something else to plug into, then logic would state to try that first before determining any part is bad.

Answer all these questions for the most useful advice and/or answers. Wink

Kapt.Krunch

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:23 pm

hueseph wrote:

Kev wrote:

Pin 1 shield/ground/0volts
Pin 2 hot
Pin 3 cold

Thanks for the clarification.

RHF: it wasn't a matter of the plug I was talking about but the internal wiring. Say if the Mic were destined for the UK it would be wired differently than if it were destined for US AFAIK. At any rate, I think it's definitely the mic. If you know the cable works, it's the mic for sure but I have to say, you're probably not much better off with that mic than one from Radio Slack.

Hueseph, I have no idea where you heard about some difference in wiring from US to UK. The wiring standard for XLR (as listed by Kev) is the same globally. I dread to think of the mess we would be in otherwise! We have enough problems with reversed phase on faulty cables as it is....

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:39 pm

MrEase wrote:

Hueseph, I have no idea where you heard about some difference in wiring from US to UK. The wiring standard for XLR (as listed by Kev) is the same globally. I dread to think of the mess we would be in otherwise! We have enough problems with reversed phase on faulty cables as it is....

Historically, the US was slow to adopt the "Pin 2 Hot" standard. So there indeed was a time when gear destined to UK might be wired differently than for the US. Presently most have conformed to pin 2 hot, but there are still manufacturers who continue to wire pin 3 hot to this day.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:07 pm

Zilla wrote:

MrEase wrote:

Hueseph, I have no idea where you heard about some difference in wiring from US to UK. The wiring standard for XLR (as listed by Kev) is the same globally. I dread to think of the mess we would be in otherwise! We have enough problems with reversed phase on faulty cables as it is....

Historically, the US was slow to adopt the "Pin 2 Hot" standard. So there indeed was a time when gear destined to UK might be wired differently than for the US. Presently most have conformed to pin 2 hot, but there are still manufacturers who continue to wire pin 3 hot to this day.

Whoah! Am I dating myself. Even if I could why would I? Never mind. Yeah. I guess I'm a little behind the times....or maybe I'm a big behind...the times.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:24 am

Zilla wrote:

MrEase wrote:

Hueseph, I have no idea where you heard about some difference in wiring from US to UK. The wiring standard for XLR (as listed by Kev) is the same globally. I dread to think of the mess we would be in otherwise! We have enough problems with reversed phase on faulty cables as it is....

Historically, the US was slow to adopt the "Pin 2 Hot" standard. So there indeed was a time when gear destined to UK might be wired differently than for the US. Presently most have conformed to pin 2 hot, but there are still manufacturers who continue to wire pin 3 hot to this day.

Well that is interesting info. I've been using US gear (mainly mic's) since the early 70's and have never heard of this before. Maybe it's because I'm in the UK that I'd never heard of such a problem.

I'd be intrigued to know exactly which manufacturers are still managing to ignore what has become a global standard!

EDIT: P.S. Hueseph, where in Vancouver are you? I have friends that live by False Creek overlooking Granville Island. (Handy for Tom Lee's!).

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:43 am

Way back when it was mainly an issue for my situation with consoles, not so much mics. I guess even at that time it was a rarity but just for the sake of knowing, I was taught how to make "crossover" cables. Soldering is something I've never been really good at and the whole idea is lost somewhere back in my memory. IE: I never practiced it. It's just a thought that came up when the OP brought up the problem.

Incidentally, I'm on the other side of False Creek near Vancouver General Hospital. I have a few friend in False Creek as well. Small world.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:47 am

Kapt.Krunch wrote:

Well, that adapter LOOKS like an XLR-TRS adapter, but it claims:

"Trustworthy balanced-to-unbalanced signal conversion."

So, apparently they must have it wired internally to do the job properly.

Is that Crate a guitar amp? Are you plugging into the jack you usually plug a guitar into? Or, are you plugging into something labelled "Line In"? You really haven't answered those questions yet, and they are important.

Tell us what model Crate it is, and where you plug in to?

Kapt.Krunch
(D.D.S. pulling teeth). Shocked

not plugging it into the guitar input...there are two guitar inputs-- one -6 dB and one 0 dB..im plugging it in to the "Line In"..its a Crate GX-80 btw..

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:08 am

Kapt.Krunch wrote:

BTW, after all this...you said you are "testing it" in the Crate. You have nothing else to plug it into, or do you plan to actually try to use a mic in a guitar amp? If that's the case, you might as well just use the old mic that worked, because you gain nothing with this one. You could plug a $5000 mic through a $10,000 preamp and into a guitar amp, and it'll STILL sound terrible on vocals.

I have a suspicion this is what you are going for, otherwise you'd have something else to plug into. And, even if it was something like a Crate Taxi, that has an XLR input, I believe, so I don't think you have one of those.

Am I guessing correctly? If so, don't try too hard to get any useable vocals out of a guitar amp....ain't gonna happen because of the way a guitar amp's frequency range is designed, and because of the lack of a high-frequency driver.

Also, you COULD use an XLR-1/4" transformer unit, which they make (even Radio Shack used to carry them), but only if you plugged into the Instrument In.

Almost seems like a lot of trouble IF that's what you plan, and if you have something else to plug into, then logic would state to try that first before determining any part is bad.

Answer all these questions for the most useful advice and/or answers. Wink

Kapt.Krunch

we have a karaoke machine, and i tried plugging the Nady mic into that, but no response.. however, the karaoke machine's mic works when plugged in to the karaoke machine, and i got an output when plugging it into the amp..not a good one though... no clue of the specs on the karaoke mic ..besides that, i dont have anything else to plug the mic into right now, and the Shure mic i was previously talking about is one that I borrowed from a friend.. i just wanted something to mess around with.. the mic i used last time actually sounded decent when i sang into it and i was just trying to reproduce that quickly/cheaply

ive been planning on getting recording equipment since im trying to record a cd over the next year, but there's just a lot of options and im trying to figure it all out... not sure if i should invest in a decent digital recorder or just use recording software for what im doing..dont have many instruments except my guitar, and possibly a keyboard soon, so i really want something with good effects...the Boss digital recorders seem to have that, but kinda expensive..was actually looking at the Boss-BR600 since that might be in my price range but the Fostex recorders around the same price range seem to offer a lot more features.. it seems Boss wins out on the multitude/quality of effects they have though? ..also was planning on getting a cheap condenser mic (mxl 990 or mxl 2003).. wasn't sure if there's a better setup for a cheap home recording studio.. love to hear any suggestions regarding equipment you used when you started out and/or still use, etc

thanks for the help everyone

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:31 am

Laptop, Edirol UA-25, cheap mic.
And luckily for me, should I wish to progress into the stereo age, I can because of the two input nature of my beast.
Seriously though, what are you recording? If it's your vocals, spend your money on tuition and then when you have some skills go into a studio where your voice can be properly recorded and pitch shifted if needs be.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:27 am

Radiohead...

You STILL haven't answered the questions, so I don't know what to tell you.

The probable reason that the "karaoke mic" worked is because it's probably a high-impedence mic with a 1/4" TS jack. Did the Shure you used earlier use the same "adapter" you tried with the Nady? Could that be the problem? I dunno.

I'm trying to help narrow down the possibilities, but you're not giving relevant answers to questions, and you don't seem to have a logical diagnostic plan that you have to use to eliminate possibilities in order to arrive at a solution. It's a process of elimination with a lot of this stuff, and you need to learn how to do it.

I'm happy to try to help people help themselves, and I try to gently guide inexperienced people through the process of helping them learn, but I'm no use to someone who cannot understand simple concepts and suggestions, and who won't answer simple questions. Confused

Lastly, search engines are great resource that can teach one a lot of things, and lead to other, related answers.

With that, good luck to you.

Kapt.Krunch

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:51 pm

yep Krunch is right

the "karaoke mic"
...
is prossibly unbalanced
so
it is probably how (you)/(the adapter)
handles signal and earth

for many mics just using pin 2 (hot) and pin 1 (shield) won't work because they are often transformer coupled and so you will need
pin 2 and pin 3 to get a signal
some adapters join 1 and 3 that's fine becaude the signal gets referenced to ground instead of thin air

THAT Planet Waves XLR-1/4" Adapter has a Tip Ring Sleeve
probably
pin 1 to Sleeve
pin 2 to Tip
pin 3 to Ring

IF the Crate doesn't join ring to Sleeve then it won't work
many of those plastic 1/4 inputs are build as stereo
BUT with the ring contact missing

so for the nady sp1
try pin 2 and pin 3 to the Crate amp
add pin 1 to pin 3 on the shield of the Crate and listen for changes to hum and supply buzz

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