Symmetricity Question

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:24 am

Hi All (Rod if you are around!!! please advise)

I just purchased Build It Like the Pros and am throughly enjoying it thus far. I am in the process of working out all the details to build a control room (mostly and part vocal tracking) adjacent to my existing garage.
Due to set back from the rear fence issues of the property, I can have a room that is wider on one side than the other. However what I was thinking of doing was to build the room (east and west walls to be 18', north wall is 13' and south wall is 10') and then make the 3' section which is sort of triangular to be like a triangular closet space with the door to the closet located on the east wall, which leaves the rest of the space as a symmetrical 18'x10'. My question is based on isolation (which I am hoping to have doubles walls for the unsymmetrical part) as well as acoustics, is this design acceptable for a control room? Knowing the double walled section would be non-symmetrical but what would make the room symmetric would be the closet on the east side. would having a closet to make the room more symmetrical be a mistake? in terms of balance in wall material from a symmetricity aspect. hope you can advise me accordingly. If you think I shouldnt have the closet space, then I will just build a 10'x18' and not worry about maximizing my set back area space and leave it as is. Please help.!!![/img]

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:13 am

CJ,

1st things first - read the "read this first" thread and follow the instructions carefully.

Next - is it possible for you to provide a sketch so we can get a more clear picture of where you're heading with this.

Rod

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm

Hi Rod
Thanks for getting back to me.
As for the pics, here are options 1 and 2:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20329635@N06/with/2605880723/

Basically the set back on the east side fence is the issue due to the angle. So our options are:

1. Build a non-symmetrical room (based on your book for walls/floors etc) and build a 'storage' like angled area (3' at max width) inside the room and use standard drywall for separation.

2. Build a symmetrical room which has a protrusion on the east side to again maximize space in the room.

3. Option 3 - not presented. Should we just go with a rectangular room of 10'x18' and forego the 3'x18'x0.5' (0.5BH) area as per option1.

Could you please advise which one is the better option based on acoustics.

Thanks

CJ

Rod Gervais wrote:

CJ,

1st things first - read the "read this first" thread and follow the instructions carefully.

Next - is it possible for you to provide a sketch so we can get a more clear picture of where you're heading with this.

Rod

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:13 pm

I'd like to pick a number please!!! Between 34 and 36...could be brain dead at this time!!!! Wow...I say wow...went right over the "read this first" and right into what have you done for me lately Wink

cj1973....Idle even no y we try!!

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:37 pm

Not sure if I your name is Rod nor am I sure if I am completely in Mars and you are in Pluto but you seem to be very excited saying 'Wow' and Im not sure which part of my thread made you go wow.. Bow WOw Wink

As for the infamous "read this first" thread, could you atleast point it out to me as I cannot seem to search and find it.... unless its so obvious!!

Either way, I wasnt asking for any Free favors from anyone.. We went out and bought the book but the book didnt really have an explanation as to my particular situation, and since it mentioned in the book to actually go to this site, I thought Id try it out.

I know, nothing is for free. I paid $40 for the book (even though its on Amazon for $27) as i needed it in a hurry and am prepared to pay someone if they can answer my questions, rather than preaching policy and procedures. I hope you can understand. And again where is the "read this first" thread?

Space wrote:

I'd like to pick a number please!!! Between 34 and 36...could be brain dead at this time!!!! Wow...I say wow...went right over the "read this first" and right into what have you done for me lately Wink

cj1973....Idle even no y we try!!

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:44 pm

Hi Rod

Apparently I have gone past your read this first thread. I wish it was in an obvious place for me to read it. I did do searches.... Can you please tell me how a non 'recording.org' user who signs in for the first time knows all the where abouts of everything on the site, especially if it cannot be found through a search?

Thanks and I hope you can help me out with my questions as I have read alot of the sections of your book and cannot seem to get a definite answer for my particular issue (I can pay you if you charge for advise, but I really dont have time on my hands)

Tks

Rod Gervais wrote:

CJ,

1st things first - read the "read this first" thread and follow the instructions carefully.

Next - is it possible for you to provide a sketch so we can get a more clear picture of where you're heading with this.

Rod

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:26 pm

http://recording.org/ftopict-36851.html

You had to trip over it to get this far Wink

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:53 pm

Hi
I dont understand. I clicked your link and what I didnt have is the location and now its there, however I cannot see how the location has anything to do with my question? Can you please advise?

Also I did do searches and nothing is there that will answer my specific question, nor does the Book.

As for pictures, I hope they are clear. They arent too small and definitely not too big. Ive explained everything else....

I hope someone can help.

Thanks

Space wrote:

http://recording.org/ftopict-36851.html

You had to trip over it to get this far Wink

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:04 pm

Valid point.
Reading Stickies are an etiquette that needs to be explained.
The top posts in the forums are "stickies" and they are stuck to the top of the forum because of their pertinence.
Basically you didn't have your location in your profile, now you do. Help cometh. Unless of course you have shat in the nest.

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:11 pm

THanks and I love your description of crapping in the nest.
Whats so funny is I hope you actually practice what you preach as I cannot seem to find your location either Wink

FYI.

Greener wrote:

Valid point.
Reading Stickies are an etiquette that needs to be explained.
The top posts in the forums are "stickies" and they are stuck to the top of the forum because of their pertinence.
Basically you didn't have your location in your profile, now you do. Help cometh. Unless of course you have shat in the nest.

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:53 am

cj.

first things first - your rough numbers won't provide you rooms anywhere near the size you are picturing.

Your 10' width will be more like 8'6" by the time you get around to isolated construction - so forget the closet - it will end up so small as to be useless.

Next - I hope you are planing on an infill at the existing garage door - you don't indicate that.

Last - I do not like the entry into the space - it creates a lack of balanee at the rear of the room along with tying up thast corner so as to be useless for room treatment.

Go for symmetry - that is one of the most critical things in a control room.

Rod

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:03 am

cj1973 wrote:

Whats so funny is I hope you actually practice what you preach as I cannot seem to find your location either Wink

FYI.

cj,

Greener has never asked for help - and thus does not need to conform. He's offered plenty (for which I am forever greateful) - but never asked for squat.

This is not a rule of Recording.org - but is my own rule (actually it was started by Night - back when he was a moderator here - I simply put it on paper as it makes sense).

The only people I care about knowing where they come from are those who seek advice - the rest it doesn't affect me one way or another.

So he is not obligate to this rule - as are you and the hundreds (if not thousands) of posters like you from all over the world.

Sincerely,

Rod

BTW - thanks for complying - although I don't see how you could miss the stickies at the top of the page when you first enter the forum. But thanks just the same..........

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:50 am

Hi Rod

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it very much.
Thanks also for your feedback. Based on that, I would like to ask a few more questions if I may.

Assuming I go with option 1, with the 10x18 interior room (yes I have taken into account the loss of space due to isolation), and assuming the exterior walls (quadrilateral) are doubled walled, is it okay to install the interior wall on the East side with just a dry wall (to make that triangular closet space).

This achieves 2 things imo:
1. Makes the interior room symmetrical
2. Gives a closet space.
But I would like your advise on if its okay to have 3 sides of the interior room double walled, and one side just single walled, while the exterior wall of that side is double walled. Would that affect the consistency or acoustics on how things are heard because the waves would be hitting a thinner wall on one side and a thicker wall on the other. Am I making sense?

Also, based on the size restrictions i have and assuming I go for option 1, is it okay to place the desk along the east wall, assuming the north/south length is the greatest and east/west length is shorter?

I hope you have understood what Im getting at and thanks again for your time!!!

CJ

Rod Gervais wrote:

cj.

first things first - your rough numbers won't provide you rooms anywhere near the size you are picturing.

Your 10' width will be more like 8'6" by the time you get around to isolated construction - so forget the closet - it will end up so small as to be useless.

Next - I hope you are planing on an infill at the existing garage door - you don't indicate that.

Last - I do not like the entry into the space - it creates a lack of balanee at the rear of the room along with tying up thast corner so as to be useless for room treatment.

Go for symmetry - that is one of the most critical things in a control room.

Rod

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:10 am

cj1973 wrote:

Assuming I go with option 1, with the 10x18 interior room (yes I have taken into account the loss of space due to isolation), and assuming the exterior walls (quadrilateral) are doubled walled, is it okay to install the interior wall on the East side with just a dry wall (to make that triangular closet space).

Yes - although I would want to see a more detailed drawing onhow you do this - example - you would not want to take your double wall straight through and then add the single wall to the face - so again I need to see plans to make sure you don't get into trouble with triple leaf.

Quote:

Also, based on the size restrictions i have and assuming I go for option 1, is it okay to place the desk along the east wall, assuming the north/south length is the greatest and east/west length is shorter?

Nope - you atill want your speakers shooting in the longest direction of the room.

Sincerely,

Rod

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:26 am

Hi Rod

Thanks for the information and sorry about my lack of technical knowledge and ignorance. Im improving.

As for the blueprints and what you wanted, perhaps I can forward it all to you once we have the blue prints (within a week) and our priority is to get the blue prints (outside room) correct so we get that stamped by the City of LA. So before we go do that, I will run it past you and please let me know if you want to charge me for your advise (i think its fair if you do and your rates - personal message please).

Once we do get the main structure sorted out, as the permit is for an entertainment room, we can really get the inner walls right.

So let me know what works for you and I can work with you.

Tks

CJ

Rod Gervais wrote:

cj1973 wrote:

Assuming I go with option 1, with the 10x18 interior room (yes I have taken into account the loss of space due to isolation), and assuming the exterior walls (quadrilateral) are doubled walled, is it okay to install the interior wall on the East side with just a dry wall (to make that triangular closet space).

Yes - although I would want to see a more detailed drawing onhow you do this - example - you would not want to take your double wall straight through and then add the single wall to the face - so again I need to see plans to make sure you don't get into trouble with triple leaf.

Quote:

Also, based on the size restrictions i have and assuming I go for option 1, is it okay to place the desk along the east wall, assuming the north/south length is the greatest and east/west length is shorter?

Nope - you atill want your speakers shooting in the longest direction of the room.

Sincerely,

Rod

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