Recording Electric Guitar Follow Up Question

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:25 pm

Hello all!
I recently (a month or two ago) asked you guys about recording electric guitar as I had been getting an unusable sound. It just seemed "distant" and not "clear". Anyway, I was told to look into a different mic specifically for recording electric as I was using an Audio Technica AT2020 condenser, so I went with a Sennheiser e609 silver. So long story short, I buy it, try and theres still the same problem. So I thought maybe it was my technique with positioning. I tried everything (I mean everything! From far right to far left, to up to the grill to across the room with every angle in between Very Happy

) and still that same distant sound just slightly improved. Still horrible though, so I was wondering if you guys had any other thoughts on it? I'm using an Alesis multimix 8 channel usb mixer (I know not the greatest by any means, but recording vocals and acoustic guitar its more than exceeded my expectations), and my sound is the way I want it coming out of the amp. However its nothing like it sounds once its recorded. Thanks again, you guys are great!
-nocarsgo

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:58 pm

Has anyone mentioned that it might be the room?
You could try building a temporary guitar booth out of rigid insulation and foam on the inside to eliminate any nasty room reflections you may be getting into the mic.
You may also want to try recording at different volumes (really soft - really loud) too see how the amp reacts to the room.

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:29 pm

Sorry for the delay in response, for some reason this site wouldn't load for a couple of days (don't know if was my browser or the forum). Thank you MarkG for your reply, I've tried those and turning up the volume did help, however the main problem still persists. One thing I've noticed is that to get a decent enough signal on the e609 silver I have to turn the mic and mixer's volume to max, and the gain up all the way. I have not experienced this with any other mics I've used with the mixer. I was wondering, could having to have the gain be contributing to this sound? I noticed one time that my gain was accidentally all the way up when I was recording acoustic, and the sound was awful; very distorted, and sounded like it was clipping even when the audio levels were fine. When I turned it down everything was back to normal. I'm not hugely knowledgeable with the audio world (as you can probably tell Very Happy

) , but is it normal for gain to do that/a sennheiser e609 silver to have to be put up to such high volumes to get adequate signal? In terms of amp volume, I'm putting it pretty high, I mean I can barely hear the click track with headphones really loud. Alright, thanks again guys, I don't know what I'd do without your philanthropy!
-nocarsgo

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:37 pm

Sounds like an audio black hole that's sucking about 20dB out of everything. You need a particle accelerator to fix this...

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:05 pm

No way! You won't believe it, I thought it would never come in handy but I bought one of thesehttp://space.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn11085&feedId=online-news_rss20 yesterday! Crazy!
-nocarsgo

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:40 am

I had the same problem connecting to recording.org for the last few days. Other people seem to have posted so maybe one of the DNS servers forgot this site?

MarkG, I think you may be onto something. It the sound is distant, then maybe it is the standing waves of the room. High frequency attenuation also commonly sounds like distance. You may want to try the line out of your amp. Then add an amp sim if it needs help. It will sound different, but you might like it better.

If you are working with high volume levels use Vic Firth Isolation Headphones for the click and save your hearing. I love these. The are also good to keep track bleed from getting into a vocal microphone when overdubbing.

edit:
I just found your old post:
http://www.recording.org/ftopict-46576-.html

BobRogers Suggested a DI. That sounds like the way to go to me. I use Amplitube for this sort of thing, but there are over 100 free VST plugins for distortion and amp simulation.

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:22 pm

Try using an SM 57 and a smaller guitar amp & Cabinet. Folks who generally turn their amps up to get ear bleeding levels generally sound smaller than smaller amplifiers with smaller cabinets at lower levels. It takes little guitar amplifiers and little cabinets to make big sound recordings.

It also appears that your gain staging is totally whacked. A loud guitar amplifier & Speaker with a SM 57 generally doesn't need much more than 20 DB of gain. It shouldn't be any different with the e-609. Clipping? Shouldn't ever happen with electric guitar recording.

You don't turn things up to make them loud.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:32 pm

+1 for small amps / cabinets.

As I've said numerous times before, 4x12s are for the stage!

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:12 pm

Only because they're too cumbersome to drag into a studio?

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:02 pm

Most of them have wheels, at least those not modified or broken...
Wink

It's all about how much juice it takes to get the cabinet to output the desired tone and flavor inside the room.

A half or full stack comprised of 12" drivers doesn't really sound good until it's cranked to deafening levels (i.e. - stage level), overpowering the room and therefore making the room a pointless link in the chain.

A single 8 or 6 inch (and even smaller) driver cranked on a small amp doesn't overpower the room, and in actuality ends up sounding louder on mic than the aformentioned 4x12 cranked to 11!

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:33 pm

Thanks you guys for all the suggestions! I'm really excited about trying the DI method as I've never experimented with it, I just need to get hold of one. About the small amp turned up instead of big amp turned down... I have a roland microcube (really small, I think 1 watt Very Happy

), and it just doesn't get a good sound in general, and my 5 watt Fender blew out when I loaned it to an buddy out of an amp (I think I know why now!). So should I focus on getting a new amp or new mic at this point? I talked to a guy who owns the mic I use and said that something may be wrong with it as it shouldn't require that much volume/gain. I can't thank you guys enough, I hope I'm not bothering you all!
-nocarsgo

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:26 am

nocarsgo wrote:

Thanks you guys for all the suggestions! I'm really excited about trying the DI method as I've never experimented with it, I just need to get hold of one. About the small amp turned up instead of big amp turned down... I have a roland microcube (really small, I think 1 watt Very Happy

), and it just doesn't get a good sound in general, and my 5 watt Fender blew out when I loaned it to an buddy out of an amp (I think I know why now!). So should I focus on getting a new amp or new mic at this point? I talked to a guy who owns the mic I use and said that something may be wrong with it as it shouldn't require that much volume/gain. I can't thank you guys enough, I hope I'm not bothering you all!
-nocarsgo

If you're struggling to get a good sound from the Microcube, you're not setting it up right. I routinely use a microcube for recording a second guitar, alongside a GT Pro, and it records well.

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:57 pm

I figured out the problem Very Happy

I talked to a guy who had the same mic, and when I was playing for a show today we set them up and there were to put it lightly obvious differences in quality and audio signal. So since I got it a couple of months ago, and it was like this when I got it I think I can get a switch out. Thanks so much guys again, you've all been a tremendous help. I'll have to let you know what happens when I get the new one Very Happy

-nocarsgo

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:50 pm

Ya know, it's probably just a cold solder on the high or low (pin 2 or 3) of the xlr...

It'd take a few seconds to fix...

Anyway, you're welcome. Thanks for taking part!

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