Phantom power and guitar FX pedal. Clash?

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:41 pm

Hi sorry I couldnt think of a better title.

Here is one for you. For years the guy I work for has used an Electro-acoustic pair of tabla each of which were routed through a Boss FX guitar pedal. Bass and Hi respectively. The guitar pedals only allow unbalanced jack inputs. I never heard the system when it was brand new so dont have a benchmark as to how noisy the system was but can only presume it was ok as they have been used continuously all around the world. These days it is very noisy. The mics are 14 years old and obviously need replacing and this is where this is all leading...

I think we can all agree that upgrading the mic from the dynamic electro-acoustic mic it is now...

(this is different from electret or electroacoustic mics)
((an electro-acoustic mic refers to the theory behind the internal mic so is a name for a specially designed shock mounted mic used in this situation))

...to a nice beta 98S would be a good idea. Thing about the Beta 98S is that it reqires phantom power. So my question to the boffins is...

Will having phantom power running from the desk, through the guitar FX pedal into the mic affect the sound or make the channel unacceptably noisy? Or indeed blow the bloody thing up?

ALL HELP APPRECIATED

FIL Cool

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:42 pm

i'm going to throw out a guess here...

it wont work at all. you'd need to have a separate phantom power supply BEFORE the fx pedal.

am i right? what do i win??

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:19 pm

You may be right...

You dont win anything yet tho. Laughing

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:54 pm

right. so.. should i expect a fish in the mail?

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:06 pm

eww

Watch out for paper cuts.

I was going to call something like "Mail or Male"?
But I don't want to know.

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:56 am

Whoa!!!
This is a very confusing scenario. Are you mic'ing up the tablas, routing the mics into the Boss pedals, then running the outputs of the pedals into a mixer? It looks that way, at least. Are line matching transformers involved, or are you simply using adapters to go from XLR to 1/4" connections? There are too many variables here that are not being detailed or explained.
A much better way to go is to mic up the tablas, running the mics directly into the mixer. If the mics are condensers, yes, utilize the mixer's phantom power to get them working. DON'T run the mics directly into the Boss pedals. Instead, use the mixer's INSERT jacks to send and return the mic'd signal through the pedals. Much cleaner, less noise. And if the performer needs the pedals close at hand (or foot!) to switch them in or out of the path, I would suggest investing in a compact mixer (Mackie, Soundcraft, etc.) that could be part of the rig. This will keep all of your cable runs as short as possible, and the sound quality more consistent from venue to venue as the artist travels. Consider a compact mixer that has XLR OUTPUTS that can be run out to the venue's sound system. This will aid in minimizing noise issues.
And to answer your initial question :
If you are simply using adapter cables that take the 1/4" outs from the pedals to the XLR ins on the mixer, and engage the mixer's phantom power, you may very well damage the pedals. They were never designed to be used that way...

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:55 am

Your microphones don't need replacing. We all use Shure SM 57's that are 20 years of age and older. Microphones don't wear out. They do get broken from heavy use. But not all at once.

What it sounds like you are really describing is operator error, from a lack of experience, knowledge, technique?

You need a proper microphone preamp with phantom power, if you're going to use condenser, Phantom powered microphones. So your idea is not sound. Effects pedals really don't have quality inputs that will realize any advantages from cheap microphones to more costly microphones.

You don't even necessarily want condenser microphones for percussive devices.

Time to pick up a book
Ms. Remy Ann David

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