1. I wouldn't know mrbwnstn if he walked up and said hello. So this isn't two guys that know each other piling into this thread.
2. I have been very appreciative of Remy's posts in the past and I have even voiced this to her on other threads.
3. I was appalled to see that a moderator publicly degraded a member by using terms such as "stupid" and "idiotic" when referring to their methodology. That is far, far, far away than just voicing an opinion, or trying to offer constructive help.
4. Max's poor attempt at justifying treating someone in that way is ridiculous. Sure, it's a dog-eat-dog industry but that doesn't give you rights to contribute to the malice. Are you just falling in line with the herd? No original thought? Treat people with respect man. Be on the positive side. There are great (well respected) people in the industry that don't have to resort to name calling.
5. I still want to see those links to make a comparison. Respect is earned - and if you have the testicular fortitude to call another "idiotic" or "stupid" then you just stepped yourself up to the plate for analysis. Post the links.
This was originally a thread about tracking The Gorgeous Hussies. However, I think it'd be cool to see all of your pics from your studio. Please post pics from your studio or from a tracking session you've participated in and share with everyone else. I'd love to see them!
~ mrbwnstn
BobRogers Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 1257
Location: Blacksburg, VA
... I was appalled to see that a moderator publicly degraded a member by using terms such as "stupid" and "idiotic" when referring to their methodology. That is far, far, far away than just voicing an opinion, or trying to offer constructive help...
Glide - I don't want to defend Remy's language. I have a full time job. But I think you are making too much of this. Here is the "offending" quote
Quote:
Beautiful pictures....I too cannot quite figure out what is with all of this tape measuring stupid stuff? What? You don't know how to eyeball something? I've never needed to measure any capsule to capsule. It's idiotic. It's only guidelines. You use your ears. Not something from a textbook. OMG!
She is attacking a technique - a method - she never degrades the person. I do things that are "stupid" and "idiotic" all the time. Ask my students. Ask my daughter and son. Please don't ask my wife. That observation is only "degrading" to me personally if I grade myself perfect.
To get back to the actual issue that caused all the fuss, while I would not use her words, but the technique doesn't make sense to me either. Greener's "88 snares" comment is the best substantive point. I might add that you also have a five foot, asymmetrical kick drum. Unless you know something about the vibrational modes of the soundboard that I don't this is an exercise in "phony precision." (I had an engineer in a math modeling class who had done an internship at a power company. The engineers back at the office ashed the field guys for the distance between the high voltage power lines. Came back with 30 feet 6.25 inches. They start doing calculations and someone thinks to ask: how did you get a measurement that accurate - those lines are 100 feet in the air. Answer: well Joe stands under the left line and Jack stands under the right line we pull the measuring tape taunt and give you the number. (I am making the numbers up for entertainment purposes only.)
Of course this is just picking nits. Like every other commenter, I liked the recordings. I assumed that posting was a genuine attempt to get criticism, not an exercise in fishing for complements.
Glide Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
She is attacking a technique - a method - she never degrades the person.
Bob - I appreciate your comments, but I respectfully disagree. A technique or method doesn't have intelligence, or a brain, so the terms stupid or idiotic would not apply to a "method." But the person performing the technique or method does have intelligence and those terms apply specifically to them.
If this person wants to go outside and run around the house three times and then come back in and hang the amps upside down from the ceiling to get the sound they want then so be it - If it works for them I say more power to them. It would be a shame if we all made music like Ms. Remy - How boring a world it would be.
I’m really surprised there is so much fuss over 12” of measuring tape. Let me just say this, this isn’t a technique we made up. The first engineer I saw measure his distances, and who does it religiously (and has an amazing ear), is one of the engineers who helped develop the Kimber Kable IsoMike. Google it if you don’t know what it is. And I know a handful of other engineers that do it as well. Just think about it for 5 seconds and the physics beyond the concept. It makes sense. But whatever you do don’t try or accept something new or different.
I have no idea why mr.glide would assume that anyone thought they were in cahoots due to a previously established relationship??????
A 'better' way of hearing the results of someones work would be to simply ask to hear it rather than throwing it out as some sort of challenge simply because someone doesnt agree with a methodology.
A methodology or a group of them together doesnt make a recording good or bad. They simply serve the person or engineer making the session. A methodology cannot hear, cannot twist a knob, cannot choose a mic for a particular purpose.etc etc......
Challenging someone ( when its not even your own work in question!!!!) to some sort of childish shoot-out is a waste of time and energy.
If its to be a comparison of work, the recorded material would have to be similar in nature, the equipment used would have to have some common ground, and the time-frame would have to be similar. How would a piece of music recorded, oh say, 20 years prior to this in a million-dollar studio have any bearing on comparing to this particular projects' being?
I'm sorry if this all seems to be some kind of vindictive bullshit, but it does.......
I DO agree that a physical measurement is a GREAT starting place for placement issues with multiple mics on singular complex sources. Sometimes you get it right from the beginning. Sometimes you have to listen for a while to get it right. Sometimes, you have to revisit it after a few days/weeks/months to REALLY get it right.
Mr.Glide. I suggest that if you have a bone to pick with Remy then take it up with her personally and leave this thread to its own conclusion. Right now it seems you are becoming an agent provocatuer much to the demise of a fairly interesting thread with great pictures.
_________________ da moderAtor....proprietor of drool'n dogg rekords...pope-of-recording, the spitboys church of freedom
Codemonkey Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: Scotland, UK
IMO the studio pictures should be in a new thread, cut it away from all of this ... conflict (for want of a more diplomatic word). I'm not saying to repost the existing pics, but I don't see any benefit in people adding their own pics to this.
The ideal situation would be to have a separate board for all of these - each person can have one thread full of their own pics and that lets the comments flow without being packed into one thread. I can't imagine it being very busy though.
_________________ Curious button pushing Church sound guy.
In Soviet Russia, Phase Cancels You!
MarkG Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 133
Location: way out in the sticks
The ideal situation would be to have a separate board for all of these - each person can have one thread full of their own pics and that lets the comments flow without being packed into one thread. I can't imagine it being very busy though.
Good idea, except I don't know about the "not being very busy part". I would be in there quite a bit. I have built 3 recording studios, and due to my extremely remote location, the only resources I had was reading a lot and studying pictures from recording magazines. I think including sound clips with the pics is a great idea as well.
The problem lies in whether the people posting pics are looking for critique, or trying to educate, or just trying to show off. It could result in more threads like this, if people aren't sure of the purpose.
bent Moderator
Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1742
Location: Cocoa Beach, Fl
I've tried to stay out of this one, but I can't avoid it any longer.
There are WAY too many people jumping into this thread and posting replies that are off the mark.
I suggest that this thread get locked, everyone step away from their keyboards, take a deep breath, and move on.
I'd like to see something fruitful come out of this one - I think the OP has merit and it seems to me that he has been unduly attacked.
Other comments on here have merit as well, but when I read the thread in it's entirety I don't think they are all that advantageous to the forward momentum of our site.
This thread comes right on the heels of another similar thread "What Gives Around Here?" or something to that effect.
Dave, how's about we put this one to bed?
OP, I enjoyed reading about your methods and viewing your pics. Thanks.
Anyone else with an opinion on this, feel free to PM me;
But as far as I'm concerned, you can stick a fork in this thread, it's done.
_________________ -BeN(t)
*Proper gain structure makes the world go 'round!
All your base drumsticks are belong to us! - BobRogers
Space Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 1329
Location: Exit 4, Alabama
I say let it run open for a few more days. Seems authoritarian to lock it. Which in effect, is what all the uproar is if it were distilled to the rawest of elements?
Hoping you can understand that,
Brien
BobRogers Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 1257
Location: Blacksburg, VA
I’m really surprised there is so much fuss over 12” of measuring tape. Let me just say this, this isn’t a technique we made up. The first engineer I saw measure his distances, and who does it religiously (and has an amazing ear), is one of the engineers who helped develop the Kimber Kable IsoMike. Google it if you don’t know what it is. And I know a handful of other engineers that do it as well. Just think about it for 5 seconds and the physics beyond the concept. It makes sense. But whatever you do don’t try or accept something new or different.
Yeah, thirty years of teaching applied mathematics and partial differential equations and writing papers and books on the subject really gets in the way of learning new things about physics.
Sorry to keep this up Ben, but grading paper on multivariable calculus all day doesn't leave much time to learn about how getting an "equal distance between the mics and sound source" can "curb phasing issues". If I'm going to accept "new or different" ideas like "So using two mics with the same sound source, there is a center point between each mic at which they're going to start picking up the same frequencies at the same rate. You want to try eliminating as many dual frequencies reaching both mics at the same time as you can otherwise the freqs “phase” each other out and you get a funky washed out tone. The best way I know how to get rid of it is to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. Or position the mics in a way that they're not going to pick-up the same freqs. " I guess i'm just going to have to go out and get another Ph.D. The old one just isn't what it used to be. These damn whippersnappers with their fancy new laws of physics. Gonna be a long summer.
bent Moderator
Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1742
Location: Cocoa Beach, Fl
Brien, sure, I understand that; But all of you need to understand this:
I've worked my ass off in this industry to be able to put food on the table and clothes on my kids' backs. I've taken my share of knocks from some of the best folks in the field, IMHO. I've been covered in dust, cobwebs, mud, water, even leaked sewage. I've stayed up for 40+ hours straight, many, many times, to make sure the show will go on. I still spend most of my waking hours working on shows, talking about shows, loading trucks, loading in and out gigs...
I'm all for messing around with people and busting balls, but I know when someone's getting their ass handed to them for no good reason, and I recognize the pack mentality when it rears it's ugly head.
This thread has lost ANY VALUE it could have given this site.
End of story.
If you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me. Aside from that, I'm done with this.
-Ben
_________________ -BeN(t)
*Proper gain structure makes the world go 'round!
All your base drumsticks are belong to us! - BobRogers
Davedog Moderator
Joined: Dec 10, 2001
Posts: 2707
Location: Pacific NW
I like the suggestion of having a separate "Photos of sessions" and "Appropriate commentary". I also agree that there can be such different levels of participation as was outlined in MarkG's post. Thatnks Mr.Monkey for the idea.
Perhaps we'll have a separate sign-up for that thread only..........We have in the past encouraged folks to put up pics of their working environments and it has a short life of momentum.....dont know why exactly.......
Some do come on here to show off the gear......Its pretty obvious.....Some like to simply bask in the 'porn-that-is-gear'.....Some come to learn. Participation in this sort of thread and forum would be limited, I think, as far as posters go, but high on readership.
This is why I think a separate sign-up sheet to visit might be in order...
Opinions?
This thread has teetered on shitfest for a while and I personally dont like the gang factor. I have tried to moderate reasonably, but its still a voluntary position and it takes a lot of time to keep up with stuff and to try and figure out where its all going. People get a lot of energy from getting PO'd about stuff that doesnt matter at the end of the day, and while its great to see passion, its a wonderment at the level it reaches with barely any provocation or even a word out of place.
Hell is taking orders on handbaskets this week in case you want to know..............
I'm with Ben. A few more days and we'll lock it up and try again in a civil tone. I will keep the pictures, the links to the music tracks and will move these to a new locale should that be the impetus of the group. This in no way will reflect on anyones character or their responses to this thread. Its simply a house management decision.
_________________ da moderAtor....proprietor of drool'n dogg rekords...pope-of-recording, the spitboys church of freedom
Glide Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
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