Need those people with Golden Ears

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:56 pm

Need some of those good ears to listen and tell me which mix sounds better. I been beating my head against the wall with this remix. Each was finalized with different plugins. Its an older cover I did and I have been messing with it for a few days now. But I am trying some new plugins and I need someone else to give opinions on the one that sounds better. I have my favorite (well they all stink). Let me know yours. The last two I didnt trim and fade the end, so there is a bunch of musical rambling. They are a little bit hotter too. Dont let the loudness sway you. I need the one that sounds best. If the majority like the one I like, then I must be heading in the right direction. Oh yea, one plug in I used is controversial to some. Smile

Thanks

Song 1 http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=6121563&q=hi

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:38 pm

First thing is first. Fix the drums......
Audio snap or what ever you have to do to align them better.
The mix on 2 and 3 are better then the 1st though.

The song seems to drag but it could be because of the timing on the drums. If you can adjust them to a click and get things lined up it should help a lot. Also have you thought of adding in some tamborine to give the song a lift? Something to it to give the song some sort of movement.

Tones are great all around though. I would just mix it all down a wee bit more to get get it all sitting better. But all and all it sounds clean and like I said the tones are good.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:47 pm

DRDLKS wrote:

First thing is first. Fix the drums......
Audio snap or what ever you have to do to align them better.
The mix on 2 and 3 are better then the 1st though.

The song seems to drag but it could be because of the timing on the drums. If you can adjust them to a click and get things lined up it should help a lot. Also have you thought of adding in some tamborine to give the song a lift? Something to it to give the song some sort of movement.

Tones are great all around though. I would just mix it all down a wee bit more to get get it all sitting better. But all and all it sounds clean and like I said the tones are good.

THanks for the reply. The drums are me. Its an acoustic set. Im still new to the whole DAW thing. Can you snap actual instruments? I thought only midi could be snapped to grid. I know I can cut and move the beats, but thats too much work for that tune. Smile

I know the tune, musicianship wise (me) is a mess. Just need input on which is best 1, 2, or 3.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:24 pm

I wasnt trying to attack you =) Just that when the drums are off so much you tend to listen to that as much as the mix. Hard to get past it.
Yeah you can audio snap anything as long as it has some points to attach to. Drums will be the easiest since they have large trigger points.

I snap vocals all the time. Bass for me is the hardest but it can be done some what.

So yeah I say 2 over 3 but 3 is also a lot better then the first.

Cool song and good work all n all

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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:16 pm

I updated all of them. I didnt snap to grid the drums, but put some low end back in. I need to try that snap to grip. Guess Im still not using my DAW to its full potential. Time to get the manual out. Thanks for the reply and no I get the drum thing alot. I stink Smile

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:52 am

Now while I've liked everything else you've done before, I really don't mind the sloppy drumming. That's the feel. You're not a computer nor robot and I'm glad you're not. What I have a problem with is THE VOCAL! The problem here is that everything else musically, is of an extremely limited/restricted dynamic range. Whereas the vocal is all over the place and doesn't sit comfortably anywhere in the mix, in any example. You need to crunch down harder on that vocal and stick it in its place, in the mix. It will sit there nicely along with everything else.

As to which plug-in you should use? I would have to say I liked 3 the best. But overall, I didn't like any of it because the vocal screwed the mix. (For lack of a more eloquent way to express myself). I really don't like the dynamic range of the human voice because it's really too broad to be able to record properly. And for that very reason, we crunchem' good. I've been known to both compress & limit vocals. I'll frequently compress with a DBX(160, 166, 165A, whichever is handiest) & limit with a UREI/UA 1176 or the other way around! In software, I like the graphical broadband dynamics of Adobe Audition, and frequently create my own compressor/limiters. But I also have an old standalone version of T-Racks, that I'll render a vocal out with and reimport, as I can get nearly the same results as with a 165A & 1176 (or so I think & perceive).

Now this excludes the fact that I might equalize before & after the dynamics processing. Heck, I'll actually EQ & compress while I'm recording vocal tracks, as I think it sounds better than after-the-fact, in the mix. But not always. Just mostly. Rock-and-roll vocals don't need dynamics. They only need to behave.

Out-of-control engineer in control of the sound.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:11 am

Nice guitar playing and guitar tones Very Happy

I thought the vocal sounded a little hollow. It sounded like some really short reflections, like either
1. An untreated room
2. Heavy vocal effects

I thought the drums drifted a little too, but you play as well as a guitar player should be expected to. Wink

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:54 am

Bushmaster, you're always rockin a bit of a Black Sabbath vibe that I dig.

I think 3 sounded the best, but agree whole heartedly that the vox don't sit right.

You do get guitar tones though that most people would kill for.

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:43 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

Now while I've liked everything else you've done before, I really don't mind the sloppy drumming. That's the feel. You're not a computer nor robot and I'm glad you're not. What I have a problem with is THE VOCAL! The problem here is that everything else musically, is of an extremely limited/restricted dynamic range. Whereas the vocal is all over the place and doesn't sit comfortably anywhere in the mix, in any example. You need to crunch down harder on that vocal and stick it in its place, in the mix. It will sit there nicely along with everything else.

As to which plug-in you should use? I would have to say I liked 3 the best. But overall, I didn't like any of it because the vocal screwed the mix. (For lack of a more eloquent way to express myself). I really don't like the dynamic range of the human voice because it's really too broad to be able to record properly. And for that very reason, we crunchem' good. I've been known to both compress & limit vocals. I'll frequently compress with a DBX(160, 166, 165A, whichever is handiest) & limit with a UREI/UA 1176 or the other way around! In software, I like the graphical broadband dynamics of Adobe Audition, and frequently create my own compressor/limiters. But I also have an old standalone version of T-Racks, that I'll render a vocal out with and reimport, as I can get nearly the same results as with a 165A & 1176 (or so I think & perceive).

Now this excludes the fact that I might equalize before & after the dynamics processing. Heck, I'll actually EQ & compress while I'm recording vocal tracks, as I think it sounds better than after-the-fact, in the mix. But not always. Just mostly. Rock-and-roll vocals don't need dynamics. They only need to behave.

Out-of-control engineer in control of the sound.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the drums Remy Smile

. It was an older track (really bad to begin with). I dont sing very well, but I try to. I always seem to pick covers that are way out of my limited range. I need to stick with Neil Young tunes !!! I picked the above mix because I trying to justify a plugin purchase, to see if it can help a bad mix. So far its all relative to personal music taste. There is no clear answere, the voting had been all over the place. But I will count the scores and see if the mix with the plugin was choosen most. I need to use it on a proper track. Time to open up my studio Smile

PS, Hope some day with practice I will get better control on my voice. Its hard !!!! Thanks Remy

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:46 pm

MarkG wrote:

Nice guitar playing and guitar tones Very Happy

I thought the vocal sounded a little hollow. It sounded like some really short reflections, like either
1. An untreated room
2. Heavy vocal effects

I thought the drums drifted a little too, but you play as well as a guitar player should be expected to. Wink

Correct on both !!!! I now have a treated area to sing in. I have yet to try it out. I always try and mask my voice. I need to stop that.

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:58 pm

sshack wrote:

Bushmaster, you're always rockin a bit of a Black Sabbath vibe that I dig.

I think 3 sounded the best, but agree whole heartedly that the vox don't sit right.

You do get guitar tones though that most people would kill for.

Thanks !!! I play guitar as my main thing. Maybe thats why I focus more there Smile

I just started playing drums,bass, and singing. I do this as a hobby (past 2 years), but word has been getting around and I now have people wanting to record. The "old school" country group (I posted a tune) is coming back in a few weeks. Cant wait. I really enjoy recording. Thanks again for the listen

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:49 am

No, really, your vocal is good. It's your dynamics processing that's not working for you. Your performance really doesn't need to change. It just needs to be focused better by utilizing some fairly aggressive higher ratios limiting such as 10: 1, 12: 1, 20: 1. Along with looking at least from 10 to 20 DB of gain reduction at one of the higher ratios settings, during your performance. This will control your voice in a way that will allow you better freedom of performance. Than modify your performance to suit lack of proper use of dynamics processing. You're almost on top of it!

Bushmaster, favorite of the crazy DC snipers. Any relation?
Ms. Remy Ann David
(just kidding about the relation thing)

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:06 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

No, really, your vocal is good. It's your dynamics processing that's not working for you. Your performance really doesn't need to change. It just needs to be focused better by utilizing some fairly aggressive higher ratios limiting such as 10: 1, 12: 1, 20: 1. Along with looking at least from 10 to 20 DB of gain reduction at one of the higher ratios settings, during your performance. This will control your voice in a way that will allow you better freedom of performance. Than modify your performance to suit lack of proper use of dynamics processing. You're almost on top of it!

Bushmaster, favorite of the crazy DC snipers. Any relation?
Ms. Remy Ann David
(just kidding about the relation thing)

So, your saying to use alot more compression of the vocals ? I will try that out. I used a little compression, but Im still learning how to use my plugins (I have no outboard effects or processors). I'll squeeze the crap out of it Smile

(well to a point). As far as the Bushmaster thing, yes its the gun manufacturer. Yes Im pro NRA. Remember guns dont kill people, people kill people. I like to target shoot and my M4 is my favorite gun. Am I a bubba, no hardly. Though I did grow up hunting and trapping, I have all my teeth and I can count. Smile

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:19 pm

Yeee haaaa!

I like English doubles.

I would give my eye-teeth to put an H&H .500NE double next to my Great-Grandfathers Greener shotty.

And yeah, your guitar tone is second to none.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:55 pm

Greener wrote:

Yeee haaaa!

I like English doubles.

I would give my eye-teeth to put an H&H .500NE double next to my Great-Grandfathers Greener shotty.

And yeah, your guitar tone is second to none.

Thanks for the guitar tone. Some didnt like it. Said it was too fizzy. Its all personal taste. But thanks. I ended up ditching mix 2 and 3. I liked 1 also. So I quit obsessing over this. Time to move on. I drive myself nuts at times Smile

PS, I just love the art work on some of those old shotguns.

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