Neumann TLM103 or Rode K2?

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:33 pm

Cucco wrote:

PS -
If you can, go and try some of these mics. Book some studio time (1 hour or so) with a studio that has them and see what you like.

I see a problem with that in that every space's acoustics are different. Microphone x can sound great on studio y but terrible on studio z. Recording a source you know well in this environments might help mitigate the problem , yet it will still be a guess (it always is anyway). A better option might be renting or buying from a local store with a good return or exchange policy. That way , at least you would be dealing with a lesser amount of unknowns. And there lies the problem with this types of questions. There are to many unknowns and/or variables.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:29 pm

JCMastering wrote:

Rather than say x is better than y , here are my experinces with both mics.

I bought a TLM 103 when they first came out. I was setting a small studio at home and was working more and more on peoples homes and at times I needed a reliable mic for this.

Took it to work where I shoot it out against an old U87 and a fairly new M 149. The studio owner and me both agreed that we liked it better than the U87. It did not bit the M 149 but it held it own considering the price difference. Where the M 149 sounded big and 3 dimensional the TLM sounded upfront and clear.

Many studio owners have asked me to sell it to them. I like that what I record with it rarely needs eq in the mix.

Two clients of mine have the Rode K2. I have compared my TLM to the K2 at their studios. The K2 was brighter , required less gain to match the TLM , and on loud sources distorted before the TLM. In one studio we preferred the TLM and in the other the K2. The one studio where we liked the K2 better had bad acoustics (the studio sounded like a low pass filter).

So there. I hope that is useful to you.

Well...i think we live in diferent worlds...i use to have a TLM103...fairly a good mike, but, man...better than the U87?????? never in this life...now i have an U87 and i think is just other league...presence, midrange, power...not hi fi sounding like those new mikes, but for "me" is the sound...you can go on almost anything...i even prefer the K2...but, i think its matter of taste...but refering to the 87...maybe isnt the best mike out there...but is a very "honest" sounding mic...

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:35 pm

JCMastering wrote:

Cucco wrote:

PS -
If you can, go and try some of these mics. Book some studio time (1 hour or so) with a studio that has them and see what you like.

I see a problem with that in that every space's acoustics are different. Microphone x can sound great on studio y but terrible on studio z. Recording a source you know well in this environments might help mitigate the problem , yet it will still be a guess (it always is anyway). A better option might be renting or buying from a local store with a good return or exchange policy. That way , at least you would be dealing with a lesser amount of unknowns. And there lies the problem with this types of questions. There are to many unknowns and/or variables.

True - the acoustics of the space may be different, but it's very easy to discern the quality of a microphone even in a poor acoustic space. However, since most "pro" studios should have some degree of acoustic control, the effects should be minimal. Additionally, recording voice, distorted guitar and a few other instruments aren't highly dependent upon the acoustics of the studio since they're near-field capture.

Adding to that, many stores (such as GC and Sam Ash) won't let you purchase and return mics. Also, if you're not in NY or LA, there's not a whole lot of places from which to rent mics. Also, I have a good relationship with several retailers. I wouldn't go out on a regular basis and ask them to send me mics that I knew I was going to send back. I wouldn't keep that relationship for very long. On the other hand, I'm not above getting a $300 round trip plane ticket to go to Sweetwater or somewhere to try out a pair of $3000 mics. Of course, I don't think this is the budget we're talking about in this post.

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:41 pm

Is Sweetwater in Vegas or something?

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:49 pm

Close-Indiana is HELL.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:42 pm

Greener wrote:

Is Sweetwater in Vegas or something?

For Jeremy to get to Indiana he'd probably have to change planes at least twice. Always cheap direct flights to Vegas

moonbaby wrote:

Close-Indiana is HELL.

Said the man from Jacksonville...Have any "I like Ike" buttons? Sorry, hope you make it through the season in one piece.[/quote]

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:08 am

Cucco wrote:

It's these kinds of questions and answers that bother me sometimes.

First - to the original question -
It's not a stupid question. However, you simply CANNOT base your purchasing decision on what anyone here says. It would be foolish and absurd.
.
.
.

PS -
If you can, go and try some of these mics. Book some studio time (1 hour or so) with a studio that has them and see what you like.

Best advice so far in this thread. I had a TLM103 and quickly returned it because it didn't sound as nice to me (on my voice) as my U87 did. Nobody has a voice like your's, so it's in your best interest to take the time, head out to a studio or a friend's place and try as many microphones as you can. Maybe the TLM103 will be just what you wanted. Maybe it's not, and maybe you'll go in a direction you never thought of with your final selection. That said, I can guarantee you that six months down the road, you won't be worrying about having "this mic" or "that mic", because you'll know that you already have something that works great with your voice.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:27 am

elcubo wrote:

JCMastering wrote:

Rather than say x is better than y , here are my experinces with both mics.

I bought a TLM 103 when they first came out. I was setting a small studio at home and was working more and more on peoples homes and at times I needed a reliable mic for this.

Took it to work where I shoot it out against an old U87 and a fairly new M 149. The studio owner and me both agreed that we liked it better than the U87. It did not bit the M 149 but it held it own considering the price difference. Where the M 149 sounded big and 3 dimensional the TLM sounded upfront and clear.

Many studio owners have asked me to sell it to them. I like that what I record with it rarely needs eq in the mix.

Two clients of mine have the Rode K2. I have compared my TLM to the K2 at their studios. The K2 was brighter , required less gain to match the TLM , and on loud sources distorted before the TLM. In one studio we preferred the TLM and in the other the K2. The one studio where we liked the K2 better had bad acoustics (the studio sounded like a low pass filter).

So there. I hope that is useful to you.

Well...i think we live in diferent worlds...i use to have a TLM103...fairly a good mike, but, man...better than the U87?????? never in this life...now i have an U87 and i think is just other league...presence, midrange, power...not hi fi sounding like those new mikes, but for "me" is the sound...you can go on almost anything...i even prefer the K2...but, i think its matter of taste...but refering to the 87...maybe isnt the best mike out there...but is a very "honest" sounding mic...

That is why I begin with that first sentence. Consider that no two 87's sound the same , add acoustics , sources , impedances , preamps , etc. and is a wonder that any of us can agree on anything. Still I have no problem saying "...not hi fi sounding like those new mikes" and "is a very "honest" sounding mic" (notice the lack of but).

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:33 am

Cucco wrote:

I wouldn't go out on a regular basis and ask them to send me mics that I knew I was going to send back.
J.

That would not make sense. You would go in knowing you are going to buy a mic , just not which one.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:48 am

JC - I'm not sure in which city you live (since you don't list it in your profile) but even here in Washington DC, there aren't very many shops that have quality microphones where I can just go play with a handful of them. For me to get the mics I want, I need to go to Sweetwater, Atlas, or Mercenary (or VK or a few others). This means mail order.

If I want to compare the two mics in question, that's the only choice I have. So, I would order both the K2 and the 103 from perhaps Sweetwater fully expecting to send one of them back.

THAT doesn't make sense. You keep that up and you're not going to have very many friends in the business.

I've been willing to take a small loss on products to keep my positive relationship with dealers (such as selling a mic at 90% of what I paid for it rather than returning it.) You may consider this to be stupid, but I guarantee this gets repaid in kind by the retailers with which I shop.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:44 am

"such as selling a mic at 90% of what I paid for it rather than returning it"

True that, it's called a re-stocking fee and I have paid up to 15%.

This fee is to cover the cost of wages involved in dealing with you and for any loss that may be incurred because of an item not being able to be sold as brand new and having to cop a shop soiled discount.

When I worked in retail, if someone came in and seemed like a stand up guy who didn't try screw you out of your margin, you looked after that person...
When someone came in and spent 15 hours of your time so they could buy an item with about 2 points of fat... You made sure they got what they payed for.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:00 am

Cucco wrote:

If I want to compare the two mics in question, that's the only choice I have. So, I would order both the K2 and the 103 from perhaps Sweetwater fully expecting to send one of them back.

THAT doesn't make sense. You keep that up and you're not going to have very many friends in the business.

While this is true, some companies (Mercenary, for example) do offer this service.

I find it hard to believe that a local Guitarget doesn't have or can't get both in stock for a person though. It's not like either mic is a tough one to find.

In case it helps, here is a nice little spot where one can at least hear the different sounds of various microphones http://transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200508.mic_shootout.html

It's not the same as being able to have both mics in your studio, but it's the best I can do from this side of the computer screen Wink

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Certainly - many companies offer this. However, if Fletcher were to constantly get mics back from the same customer, he'd be the first to get a little pissy about it.

As for Guitar Center, they're happy to get mics in for me - as long as I special order them. Besides, they won't take mics back either.

I still say, it's a good idea to find studios in your area and play around. They're usually quite accomodating.

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:24 pm

Cucco wrote:

Certainly - many companies offer this. However, if Fletcher were to constantly get mics back from the same customer, he'd be the first to get a little pissy about it.

I won't deny that fact. He doesn't mess around with folks for long. I've always found, though, that a good bottle of scotch earns you some appreciation.

Quote:

I still say, it's a good idea to find studios in your area and play around. They're usually quite accomodating.

Save for some vintage stuff that I wasn't able to travel to test out, I've taken this approach for each and every mic I've purchased over the past few years.

I've yet to regret a single one of those purchases.

If you can't test them in your studio, there's no better way to learn how a mic reacts than to go out and test it for yourself in a studio environment.

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:56 pm

"f" brand names, use your ears, sorry to rant.

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