RECORDING Re: PZM - My old band used two mics on the drums live: a PZM overhead and the house kick mic. The PZM was a Radio Shack modified to accept phantom power. It was mounted to a plexiglass plate on a boom stand and flown face down direcly over the drummer's head.. If w

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:26 pm

If you only had 1 Crown PZM mic and were recording a 20-pc jazz orchestra (drums, bass, elec. gtr, piano, keys, perc, 4 trmpts, 5 trmbns, 5 saxes, LdSax, 2 LdVs and up to 8 BGVs) in a live setting....

...where would you use the PZM?
...or would you use it at all?

BTW - your PZM is NOT the only mic you have to work with.....its just an option.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:06 pm

*****UPDATE*****

I found another PZM - so now I have a pair! Now, what would you do with 2 Crown PZMs in this setting?

Also, I was given 4 EV PM5 (dynamic omni) mics. Does anybody know anything about that mic? What are they good for? Would you use any of them on this recording? If so, how?

Thanks.

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:10 pm

You will get a hard time getting the right balance in the recording, but use your ear, place them by the lowest playing instruments, and try to place the musicians different places to obtain the balance.

If you use both pzm's rmember the "3 to 1" rule. There should be at least 3 time's the distance between the mic's than the sound source, otherwise you will get a signal wwith alot of phase problems.

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:24 am

Another thing,
I have heard you can drastically improve the strength of signal particularly the lower end if you attach the PZMs to a 2ft square to 4 ft square piece of plexiglass. I have seen a sound company mount them to some clear plex that had holes drilled in the corners and then flew them up in the air about 10 ft up angled toward the two main orchestral sections. I never heard the end product so I can't comment, but the mics were nearly invisible to the audience.

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:48 am

I recorded a gospel choir on location at a church in Oakland CA. The pastor of the congregation was Elijah Green, a monster musician who played Hammond B3 and piano. All his sons were in the band also. Absolutely killer! Reverend Green had a pair of PZM's mounted as described and we used them in the recording. They worked very well I must say. Fats
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's Very Happy

,
Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:31 pm

Tried one of the PZMs on the piano - sounded OK. Not as warm or full as the AT Pro37R, though.

So, I used it to catch the Leslie. The leslie was backed up to a wall (open back against the wall), so I put the PZM in the apex of the right angle made by the wall and the side of the leslie cab - angled about 45 degrees to the wall/cab. I was pleasantly surprised at how good a job it did. Organ sounded full and detailed - not an abundance of bottom end, but it fit nicely into the mix.

The only drawback is that either the organ or the leslie, or the mic itself is kind of hissy. You don't really notice it, though unless the music is sparse.

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:09 pm

PZM are otherwise known as "boundry" microphones; they need to be on some kind of large surface, or they're very week and thin sounding. The mounting that Tom described is widely used on stages. The larger and thicker (or more solid) the surface is, the better the sound. And yes, they are, unfortunately, noisey. But hey, if you don't have a pair of M-50s handy, you can't beat the price. Wink

Brian

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:46 pm

Hi Jeff! How's it goin man!

I agree with other posters on the pzm being mounted on a large surface. I use them as room mics for music and as roundtable mics (conference recording) when fast set-up is needed and individual micing isn't possible. My gut instinct would be to tell you to go with the omnis. On the cheap, Behringer makes the EC8000 for about $35/ea. I've never heard them but Harvey raves about 'em in a best bang for the buck kinda way. Take care!!!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:05 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Curious G:
Behringer makes the EC8000 for about $35/ea. I've never heard them but Harvey raves about 'em in a best bang for the buck kinda way

I have one of those EC8000 mics. I bought it to use with their digital EQ/RTA. One day out of curiosity, I plugged it in. I didn't like the sound of it at all. I would spend more money for a better sounding omni mic.

themidiroom

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:07 pm

Ya'll have got me interested in trying the PZM mounting trick...

How do you attach the mounting plate (plexiglas) to a stand? - mic stand, I assume...

I won't need to "fly" it, only get it in the right spot w/respect to the leslie.

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:31 am

Quote:

Originally posted by The MIDI Room:
I would spend more money for a better sounding omni mic.

Yup! DPA or Schoeps omnis are a good starting point.

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 11:57 pm

I love PZM's. they have a flavor that is truly different from 'regular' mics. It is true that they often lack fullness, but on the other hand they give you so much clarity and a certain kind of realism.

Crown makes a number of PZMs. Some of the higher end models are made with an enhanced bass response. Many people just assume that the Sound Grabber is "it" - it ain't.

Sometimes I stick a PZM inside the kick resting on a small blanket. Very nice natural boom, could work well for jazz

Taping a PZM to the lid of a grand piano will give you the coupling it needs for a full sound.

I also love PZM as room/audience mics. They will give you a lot of clarity and less phasing than a regular omni. Helps take out some of the mush in an echo-y room Tape to plexiglass and aim them XY or even try splitting them to the left and right sides of the room.

I tape the PZM's to the plexiglass with gaffer's tape and then use those big spring loaded clamps you buy at home depot for $1 each (and maybe some more gaffer's) to secure the plexiglass to a mic stand. This works well as long as you don't need to angle them up or down.

You can also use plywood. The only reason plexiglass is so popular is that it is less obtrusive in a live recording situation. With plywood you could attach a TV mount or something with screws.

I have also gotten good results taping them to the side walls.

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:06 am

We appologize for the inconvenience, but this member's posts have been deleted.

SonOfSmawg
Administrator

<small>[ January 29, 2003, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: SonOfSmawg ]</small>

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:22 am

I did some work at a studio once that had a pair of Crown PZMs mounted to the wall on either side of the glass in the live room. They were placed there for use as "talkback" mics. I surprised the second by putting them up as ambient mics while tracking acoustic guitar overdubs. They worked quite well. The second told the owner of the studio and the primary resident engineer about what I did and they began to employ this technique themselves. Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's Very Happy

, Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:17 pm

Anyone used the ECM8000 on drum OH ?
They seam to be good at it .

Marc

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