Recording Heavy Guitar

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:02 pm

I am a guitar player for a metal oriented band. My sound guy and I have been trying to get a good guitar tone to record with but haven't been able to obtain the good solid tone that my Mesa Boogie Single Rectifier has. We are using two SM57 mics on one speaker of my 4x12 cabinet speakers. Our main problem is that on some of our songs I play bar chords, full chords, and individual notes while playing on heavy parts. When recorded the bar shords and full chords will sound descent but the indivdual note plaing sounds so dry even with the tracks being dubed. I think it has something to do with the amp preset itself but my sound guy wants to just record it the way we have currenlty been recording and use a spliter with a dry signal and later bring up the gain on parts that need it. What sould we do? Any suggestions.

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:56 pm

Could be your choice of preamp. Maybe a pre with some color to make it stand out more. How about a diffrent guitar to do the single note stuff. How about pulling one of the mics back away from the amp to get some room color?

The list goes on and on. You could even place an effect pedal in the chain if that is something you want in the song and dont mind keeping.

How about doubling the sing note stuff?

Like I said... Use your imagination.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:19 am

Hi

To start with you aren't getting the true sound of your cabinet by only micing one speaker out of four. In my experience of 4x12s ( even 2x12, 8x10 ) each speaker will have a slightly different sound.

Aswell as close micing the cabinet, put out a stereo pair of condensers 5 or 6ft in front of the cabinet and use these during the single note passages to even things out a bit.

Anyway, the key here is experiment.

Good luck

Liam

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:36 am

Okay, first off let me explain that my original post wasn't actually me. That was my guitar player using my name to post with. I am the "sound guy" that he speaks of.

Here's a clip of the recording we did today with the Mesa:

http://www.chrysalismusic.net/Outspoken.mp3

The signal chain:

-Mesa Boogie Single Recto
-Miked by two SM57's, one right in the center on the grill, one closer to the outer edge at a slight angle about 2 inches back. (The Dustbro Method) And yes I'am aligning the Phase.
-The mics are going to a Sebatron VMP-2000e, through and Apogee Rosetta into Pro Tools via SPDIF.

Please give the song a listen and tell me what you guys think. Any Advice/Suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S.

JESSY DON'T USE MY NAME WHEN POSTING ON HERE! USE YOUR OWN!

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:43 am

maybe its too late and my ears are shot... but I dont hear too much of the problem you are talking about on the clip... but I cant get more than about ten seconds to play... either way. Maybe you have too much low end coming out of the amp so that when you hit chords with low notes the amp seems louder than the single note stuff. I have found that when recording super loud amps I have to turn the low knob on the amp further down than may seem "right". Or perhaps a compressor pedal on the way into the amp could help.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:01 am

I am listening to this on crappy computer speakers, but It sounds GOOD to me. Seriously, I don't hear any tone problems. If it is not broke don't fix it.
Justin

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:40 am

Hey those riffs are awesome and sound great! Don't worry about dry. Just thinka about some of the best metal albums. 4 words...

...And Justice For All

Mike placement can really change the sound of your speakers as well. 57's are great for gigging but sometimes other mikes work best for you when recording. Moving mikes around is like changing frequencies because of the way the sound hits the mike and is always a good idea.

Other suggestions, use other cabinets hooked up to your rig if they are around the studio - I have used 15" bass cabs before and got monster tone

I have to say I think it sounds great already (mesa and the playing) but it is always fun to experiment if you have the time and gear.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:40 am

Your single notes do sound a bit dark, but as far as metal goes its great to me.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:02 pm

Hi

I browse the net on the office computer that has no speakers so can't have a listen. But you are getting some favourable comments.

Keep experimenting.

Good luck

Liam

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:40 pm

Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:15 pm

Chappy wrote:

Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

Yeah I plan on trying some different mics. I'll probably use a 57 in the center, and a 421 twords the outer edge. I'd really like to use a large diaphram condenser, but I record in my house and the LDC just picks up way to much stuff. It picks up my leaking faucet in the bathroom, cars driving by on the street, and even the sting noise from my guitar player strumming his axe.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:41 pm

I use at4033s for the most part on big guitars. With 414s in the room.

That string noise can be cool too. Think about how loud an amp sounds.... so if you hear just a touch of that string noise its a cool trick.

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:54 pm

the guitars sounded good to me....reminded me some of Megadeths guitar tone on their latest CD....just a tad raspy and flabby but it works.....the drums tho, sounded rather small and overpowered by the guitars tho maybe u did that just so the guitars could be better heard.

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:53 am

Quote:

That string noise can be cool too. Think about how loud an amp sounds.... so if you hear just a touch of that string noise its a cool trick.

Take a listen to Incubus's song "Favourite Things" for an example of this. Or at least that's what it sounds like is happening....

[/quote]

Respected Past Moderator Joined: Mar 13, 2001 Posts: 1256

The powerchords speak very well. The problem as I see it is that your guitarist has a very very tiny problem in getting the single note stuff to speak. The riff needs to be a tad bit tighter in performance. But this is only half the issue. You will need to fain ride those sections up to match the level of the power chords. I would also try the single line parts as an overdub tom the power chords, or visa versa. Also, you could try ditching the other mic. The single line stuff might sound great with just a single sm57 on the brightest spot of the best sounding speaker (over the voice coil) at an angle (45 degrees).

Is there any compression going on? Back it off a bit as well.

This topic sponsored by: