My vocals keep clipping?

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:55 pm

My Vocal chain is a Audio Technica 3035 into a Grace Design 101 into a Yamaha MG10/2 with a Samson C.com16 compressor in the line imput. If I turn my pre-amp down I can't hear my vocals in the headphones when recording. I really not sure how to turn down the incoming volume and still get a strong sound in. Im at the point of either getting a headphone amp or another mixer. Im really not sure what to do. I really just need a good set up for my incoming vocals. if any of you know this equipment or could explain the headphone amp, and also the volume problem/clipping problem that im having.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:36 pm

The problem can be coming from any number of places. You should have the mic going into the preamp and into the recorder and adjusting the signals of that totally independent of the level coming back through the headphones. Set it so that you're not clipping and have some headroom, but so that it's clearly making the meters work. If you're clipping back it off.

Now, having done that, feed the resultant signal into your headphone box (Samson?) and plug in your headphones. Adjust the level on the Samson box until the voice is the right level in the phones. If you can't turn it up loud enough to get a good level in the phones then either the Samson is not giving enough juice, in which case a different headphone amp would be appropriate, OR your headphones are high impedence and are very quiet. A different pair of headphones may make the difference for you. See if you can find the specs on the headphones. If the impedence is, say, less than 100ohms then it sounds like you have a weak headphone amp - not adequate. If the impedence is much higher than that then try getting a different pair of phones. Perhaps Sony MDR7506 or Sennheiser HD280?

Where do you buy your equipment? Your sales rep should have helped you assess all of this.

Cheers!
Nika

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:03 pm

Why would anyone take a jewel like a Grace 101 and run it into...? My church uses a Yammie MG for the NURSERY! And the Samson...
Sorry...ditch the mixer, get a real headphone amp (OZ or,hey, how about that new Grace model?). I have attitude today...I was up all night with a prima donna whose "arranger" kept changing the songs. How do you like the AT mic? Mine are faves...

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:16 pm

Oh My!!!

Moonbaby, you are absolutely tactless!!!

I think I'm in love!!!

Of course I agree.

The AT mic - I might not mind knowing?
The Grace - I'd like to know.
The mixer - I don't need to know.
The Samson - I don't want to know.
What comes after the Sampson? A computer? What? I need to know. WHERE are you seeing this "clipping"?

Still, the "calibration procedure" might be:

Use the mic. Speak, sing, whatever. Get a good level into the Grace. How is that determined on the Grace? Read the manual.

Then, feed the Grace's proper level to the compressor. How does one determine feeding the proper level to the compressor? Read the manual.

Then, feed the proper level from the Samson to the mixer. How does one determine the proper level to the Yamaha? Guess!

Now, adjust the headphone level to your liking.

Hows that Moonbaby? I've had no mean clients to provoke me. Matter of fact, I've had no clients for about two weeks. Oh... maybe that's caused my even less than usual level of tact? What do you think..?

Teddy G.

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:58 am

Teddy G...I'm tactless....You're priceless!! I have gotten such a kick
from some of your posts.
I really didn't mean to be so rude. Caisson is definitely on the right
track with getting his "front end" right(I can't help his rear end!).I
just have to say that taking a Grace and plugging it into the mixer is a bit like putting a Masseratti engine into a Fiat (the French tried that once and called it a Citroen).
As far as your "dry spell" is concerned, welcome to the club! I have to work 2 jobs so that I can play with mics and knobs at night. Otherwise, Daddy's Visa will never work again! I started doing this 30 years and 2 U-87's ago and never looked back.PEACE.

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:55 am

My gear adicted friends- you are indeed priceless! I know, our visas will never be the same- not when there is gear to get- My lust gear list is so long I don't think I will ever see the end of it... (or want to anyway)

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:18 am

Caisson:
I hope that you haven't been run off by my comments. Please take what Teddy G. said as very sage advice and apply it to your situation. Recording chains,especially digital ones, can be very frustrating when it comes to gain structure. Have patience and ye shall prevail!
Teddy G.: I just noticed that you list Lititz, PA as your base. Is the famous Claire Bros. Sound Co. still operating from there? By the way, check out the post in the live sound forum from a dude who says that he has 2-18" JBL speakers for PA (total!) and wonders why his vocals are "muddy"...!

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:00 pm

It's the weekend. Waiting for the worker in my family(My wife) to get home so we can go to our kids house for dinner(I did make a cake!).

Yes. It is impossible to answer some of these questions, so, have a little fun at the posters expense(Many have had a blast at my stupid inquiries...).

Clair brothers had moved to the next town for some years... Now, they're back! And BIG!!! Huge facility at the north side of town.

Quick Claire Brothers story... No, TWO, unless the First National Bank of Karen, gets home...

1. When I first moved to Litiz, about 19 years ago, I went down to the tracks(I'm a railfan) to take some pictures of the local(Very limited) rail "action". Found myself standimg in the middle of the tracks(Not very dangerous here, then or now.), looking at a familiar scene... Very familiar... How could that be? In a short time I learned that I had been standing right next to the Clair Brothers(Then) building... Apparently in the exact spot where someones' album cover/back cover(?) photo had been taken... Don't remember the album now, but...somewhat cool, none the less.

2. In the days when touring systems were tested prior to the tour(Now they just test them in Hershey, or some other nearby arena, prior to hitting the world(And make money while they do it.), it was not uncommon to hear reports of the biggest stars hanging out here... A guy who did part-time work at a radio station I was programming at the time
was a high school shop teacher, who moonlighted at CB. He was working on a speaker cabinet one evening and a guy came in, looking things over, said something like "Great job! This will really work well", shook his hand and left. My friend found out later(After a kid in one of his classes showed him a picture) that he had been apparently been chatting with Bruce Springsteen, about part of his upcoming tour-rig...

3. Bonus story!

I needed to record a short VO, to correct a narration done in Philadelphia, or something. Studio said maybe I could get it done up there and just ship it down, no hurry. SO, I called Clair Brothers and asked if they had anything to record with. They said, yes, come on over. So I did. From their studio you looked down into the "test area" - very cool...(Of course, being very cool myself, I did my thing, got the tape and I tried not to ask for a "tour', and thank God I didn't drool or anything...much... Anyhow(She's here, must hurry!), the recording gear was all in road cases and I asked why. "Well, one of our clients needed a little studio to do some stuff at home with, so we built this for him, he used it to do some stuff and sent it back." "Who?", says I... Billy Joel... I've got another BJ story, but that will have to wait(No, we never met - but it wasn't his fault...)

Later,

Read the manual.

Teddy G.

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:25 am

thanx for all the imput......
what I found was that...I was leaving my mixer aux wide open, and I was using my control room level sorta like a volume control....so even when I would turn it down.....the incoming would still be clipping due to the aux. being wide open. Was I fiqured this out things have been beautiful.....Now Moonbaby? you said get rid of the mixer why exactly would I do that?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:37 am

Whatever works, baby! I just saw no reason to run the Grace INTO the mixer if you are tracking with it, but I don't know all the details of your situation, do I? As to the mixer itself, I am very familiar with it. I honestly suspected that the clipping you were hearing was the 'phones amp in it. That mixer (and too many other mixers in its market niche) have no balls in the power supply and the headroom is zip. This doesn't mean it can't sound decent.It just means that there is no room for error. My church uses 2 of those mixers, plus a very nice Yamaha MC console in the sanctuary.I used to road-test live sound gear for Yamaha many years ago (think PM2000 mixers!) and believe that they are, in many cases, the best bang for the buck. But running a high-output Grace preamp into that mixer can be a balancing act.So, once again, to quote Ronnie VanZant (Lynyrd Skynyrd) when I scoffed at his using a Fender Twin Reverb as a floor monitor.."Whatever works, baby!

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:33 am

So what kind of mixer do you all suggest for a voice-over project studio?

I've been working on a MG 10/2 since Christmas, and I've had no problems.

I would like to upgrade some stuff, which includes buying a Rode K2 this week. Should I simply run the K2 into the DAW, or should I even bother with a mixer?

Brad Venable
Voice For Hire, LLC

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:08 pm

What are you recording to? You will need a decent preamp for that K2. I think the Grace101 is excellent. I have read many good things in this forum about the Sebatron, too. I have had very good results with a Drawmer MX60.It offers a good lot of features, including a very good de-esser and compressor. It also has features that I don't use, like a "tube saturation" stage. The phantom power stage is better than most small mixers offer (no artifacts or wierd noises). You might also look at the Valley Audio Model 401 ("Air Force One") voice processor from Galaxy Audio. They still support all the Valley stuff, too.I have had one of those for almost 10 years.
Mixer? I have not A/B'd the Yamaha MG series against anything directly, so I don't know how it would do against, say a Mackie. But I have (2) Allen&Heath GL2 rackmounts that blow my Mackies away(features/headroom).These are the pre-cursor to the MixWizard series.Niether of my A&H's have given me an ounce of trouble and they both have been through hell and back.

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:12 pm

Right now, I'm going out of the Yamaha MG 10/2's Rec. Out into my Creative Audigy4 Pro external box. I record in either Cool Edit Pro 2.1, or Sound Forge 8.0.

My front-end chain is a FMR RNC, a Behringer Composer Pro-XL, and an Ensoniq DP/Pro (when I want FX).

So do I really need a major upgrade?

Regards,
Brad Venable
Voice For Hire, LLC

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:41 pm

Operadragon wrote:

.

My front-end chain is a FMR RNC, a Behringer Composer Pro-XL, and an Ensoniq DP/Pro (when I want FX).

So do I really need a major upgrade?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:52 pm

I think that we are opening a can of worms, here. I have an RNC and I have had some issues with it, but it is certainly a very useable compressor. I made the comment about your mixer based on my experiences at a couple of churches that use them. I stand by that. Ditto with the Behringer. Double-ditto with the Behringer! At least Yamaha has a decent track record in the audio biz, Behringer NEVER has. Unplug it and donate it to.....a church!
As for mixers, I have read in some of the forums here that the Mackie Onyx is OK, then some folks have had issues with the interfacing via Firewire. RESEARCH this before you proceed.

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