ReAmping

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 6:52 am

Hi, I'm new here. Wanted to say hi and ask a couple of questions Smile

.

I'm not new to recording or anything, but I just recently learned a little bit of information about a method of guitar recording called reamping. I understand what it does...I mean you have a splitter DI box, one out goes to your interface/DAW/console/whatever and the other goes to whatever you will be using to do scratch guitar tones. Then you can later send the direct guitar signal out and into a ReAmp or the Radial X-Amp and then into an amplifier that you've mic'ed up and it'll re-record the guitar playing but with the amp you want and it'll be just like plugging in. However...my misunderstanding is where you get the levels you need.

Right now my setup consists of a M-Audio MobilePre USB and Digital Performer/Cubase LE on a PowerBook G4. I use Cubase for programming Drumkit From Hell Superior, and then Digital Performer to mix and track in. I wanted to do the reamping thing for a project I'm doing with a friend out of state. He sent me his amp since he can't mic it up at his apartment, and he sucks at recording so...What we were going to do was he was going to buy a 2ch. or a 1i/2o DI box and record PODxt for the scratch tone and send me the direct guitar tracks from the other channel, and then I was going to get a ReAmp or X-Amp and reamp his tracks through his Mesa Dual Recto for the songs. What do I tell him to make sure he captures the right level or whatever is needed on his end? How do I send it out to his amp once I get it? I mean, I know I'll send it OUT of my MPre and to the ReAmp, and then have the cab mic'ed up and going to channel 1 or 2 and I'll record that, but I've heard you have to send the level at either -10 or +4 or something to the ReAmp? How can I make sure that is correct?

Also, his amplifier is a Mesa Dual Recto Tremo-Verb combo. It has speaker outputs (with ohm loads 4-8-16) and a slave output. With the slave output I have been running that into my PODxt Pro and using the cabinet+mic modeling with pretty good results. The reason I've been doing that? Because the combo's cabinet really sucks for anything other than clean stuff. Once you start trying to get a nice heavy distorted rhythm tone, it's way too boxy and midrangey for that, and any eq'ing just makes it thin and still has that boxy sound. So since I don't have a cabinet to hook it up to, I've been using the POD's modeling. Like I said, it's turned out pretty damn nicely so far, and all I've done is gotten scratch tones just to try it out. I was wondering if anyone else has tried this before and...could I run the speaker output to my POD? Forgive me if that sounds stupid, but I don't know. I am thinking it wouldn't work because the speaker output will be delivering power to the output, and that would mean my POD would be getting a huge load of power on the input, probably make it fry, no? I only ask because I think all I'm getting into the POD is preamp from the Mesa. Of course, I also haven't tried cranking it, I've still kept it at very low volumes...maybe I should try cranking it a bit more...I'm looking for more poweramp saturation in the sound. It sounds good as is, don't get me wrong, but I would like there to be more poweramp coloring in there, give it some beef to the sound, yanno?

So anyway, wow, my first post is pretty long, hehe. I hope someone can help me out here, thanks in advance. Smile

~TS

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 12:56 pm

don't go into the red, and keep the levels moderate so you don't get too much noise from the di.

when you reamp, you'll have to output pretty low, it's really easy, just twist the knob until it sounds like he's standing next to you recording.

it's kinda like walking, you just do it. it's not something to be overthought.

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:14 am

I like this topic.
I too would like to hear from others who own or use the Radial X amp for re amping guitar tracks. Does it work "just as good" as doing it the typical way?
Or, does anyone have any major complaints from recording this way?

Lastly, do these re amp boxes do a better job than any other DI boxes?

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:46 pm

While there are some DI's that can handle Speaker output levels, and balance them to mic/line level... Most power amps would not advise driving the amp withought a load, or a speaker, connected to it...

If u want to use the cabnit/mic modeling of the POD, consider using the Post Pre line outputs on the messa head, if it has one.

For impedence matching (if the reamping device accepts +4dBm), and the sound interface does not operate at this level, consider use of a DI box. I suspect the mobile pre would have -10dBu (or consumer level) outputs. Your signal chain could look like this :

DAW -> m-audio pre out -> DI -> Reamp -> Hi-Z out to amp head -> line out to POD -> line out to mobile pre in.

Keep the speaker connected, even if driven a t a very low level. There are some boxes that can do this job too.. but im not aware of a name.

Sidhu

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:16 pm

From the ReAmp site (www.reamp.com):

"+4 balanced is the professional line level signal found on 3 pin XLR or “TRS” connectors with the in phase signal on pin 2 or the tip, the out of phase signal on pin 3 or the ring, and the ground or shield signal on pin 1 or shield. This is found on all professional tape recorders, consoles, and outboard gear.

-10 unbalanced is the consumer line level signal found on RCA connectors with the in phase signal on the pin or tip and the ground or shield signal on the shield. If your gear has RCA or ”TS” connectors you have –10 unbalanced equipment if you have XLR connectors you have +4 balanced equipment."

I have TRS and XLR connectors on my M-Audio MobilePre...

"Question - I use a computer with a sound card. Do I need a Reamp to send recorded tracks to a guitar amp?
Answer - Yes. Most high-end music cards (m-audio, lynx, aardvark) have +4 outputs on breakout cables. If your computer sound card has +4 outputs you are ready to go into the Reamp. Many consumer “off the shelf” computer cards (Sound Blaster type) are only –10 unbalanced. In this case, you will need to lower the output level another 10 to 15 dB, stay unbalanced and go directly into the amp without a Reamp. Don't call me if it doesn't work."[/b]

I guess I should just buy it and try the different ways to do it and see which way I should do it. I read and read and read about this stuff and get lost every time. So I'll just wing it and see which way works. Thanks though guys. Smile

~TS

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:51 pm

you really should keep the speakercab connected, or have a dummyload connected to the speaker-output of the amp, otherwise you'll fry the outputtransformers

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:56 pm

Check out the Radial JDI.

First of all, it is an instrument DI, and an excellent one at that.

But... if you flip it around, and add an XLR gender adapter, it becomes a re-amping box.

Very durable & very simple, with a good informative manual.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:26 am

Hmm...are you sure the JDI works that way? I was thinking of getting a DI box from Radial as well as an X-Amp. But if it can do the reamping by simply using an adapter and making the signal route the other way...why not save some cash? Heh.

Also, I need to find a 2ch. DI eventually so that I can take advantage of reamping myself. Right now I only need to reamp my friend's tracks, but someday I will want to do it for my own things as well. I need something that will take my guitar input in, and split it into two outputs. Any suggestions? Thanks guys. Especially 2012 with the JDI information!

~TS

Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 2:47 am

well +4db is equivalent to 1.23 volts or pro balanced cable which is your standard line level coming out of a mixing board. If you have allready recorded the guitar track and you plan on sending it to a head and then to a cab. Your going to need to drop your line level from 1.23 volts to a guitar voltage of 0.1 volts so that you don't overload your head. You can do that with one of these http://www.frontendaudio.com/Radial_X_Amp_Re_Amplifying_Device_p/1815.htm
Then you can mic your cab or if you would like you can DI the head back into your daw. I would recommend micing a cab if you can.

Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:24 pm

do a search here
so many posts here already

search for references to the Jensen site and the schematics section

other audio transformers will work in the Jensen configuration

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