My first post and it's a big one!!!

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:15 am

I have been reading the stickies and some posts here too. I have some background in construction and contructing a small studio.... However, that was a long time ago.

The information I have received here has been great to read. Some of it is over my head no doubt. I know I need Rod's book too. However as most do, I have several questions.

Here is my situation. I will have to contruct myself. I do not have the cash flow to hire it out, and I am above average in contruction. While I would love to hire a person to come out a lay out the design, tell me where to treat walls, I do not have the cash flow for that. I know that there night be a flaw in design and in the mixing with ease area, but I feel like there is enough information gathered here that with some guidance from you all, I will get close.

My space is about 34 x 20. As of now, it is divided up like this:

1- Room is 13x20
2- room 15 x 20
2- 8 x 20 (not closed in)

overview of your goals

My short term goal is to get the control room completed (no construction started as of yet) and an ISO booth completed so that we can start handling vocals first. Then add the other rooms for tracking.

I have researched this, but I am in need of help considering the building and the ceiling.

HOW LOUD am I

Not very. I am not the one to blast during tracking nor mixing. My ears have to last a long time. However, I do cut it up every now and then. I don't see a problem with the neighbors, but I still want to respect their rights to be able to sleep in peace and rest soundly.

[b]Include as much detail as possible about the existing construction. [/quote]

The foundation is concrete. I am not sure of the thickness. There is a problem of water entering the building around it. I believe the building has sank. That put the foundation level with the surface of the ground which has created the problem. My solution for that is to dig a wide ditch around the building. I will use 2 four inch pipes with holes drillled in them. They will be wraped in a mesh type of material. I will lay them at a slight grade for proper drainage. I will also cover the pipes with rocks or stones that look good. TRUST ME... this building need a lot of help on the looks side..... LOL ALSO, I will run gutter around the building.

The walls are in a bad condition for a recording studio. First the exterior has tin on it. Second there is no insulation at all. It is constructed with 2x4s and has waffer board finishing the inside. It is a 1/4" thick at that. As you can see in the photos, the roof is leaking..

The ROOF..... It's tin also. I know a new roof has to go up first, and this is where I think I need help at first too. At this point in time, I am going with a traditional roof.

The ceiling.... wow!!! 100% waffer board.... also, as you can see in the pictures, the angle of the front room ceiling presents a problem. It is vaulted. If it were a normal ceiling, it would be about 7 to 8' tall.

My main concerns are the correct deminsions for the control room. I can not have a control room that is 20' wide on the back wall. That would take up the width of the building. I need it scaled down, BUT I do not know how that will effect the mixing.

**** edited to provide needed information****

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:24 pm

Enter your location into your profile.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:56 pm

When you lay those drilled pipes for drainage remember to cover them in some landscaping fabric. That will keep the holes from getting clogged and the pipes from getting filled with mud over time.

I am certainly not an expert on this, but in my last project studio I constructed 5' x 3' frames and covered them with heavy carpet underpadding followed by colored burlap fabric for cosmetics. My room was essentially a "L" shape with a rectangle portion 12' x 23' and a diagonally constructed closet in one of the critical right angle portions. I placed the finshed frames on the wall spacing them opposite a bare portion of opposing wall, reversing the procedure on the alternate wall. Before beginning I had a substantial reverberation problem. Upon completion it all but disappeared.

Hopefully the more knowledgable individuals can give you more advice.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:59 pm

Location entered...

I can upload pics it that is allowed. Can somebody tell me if it is??

On covering the pipes with something to keep the holes from being clogged... I will do that, and it makes sense to me too.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:12 pm

To show pics, you have to upload them to your own website (most ISPs give you some free space for that), and then just insert the links to those pics into your post by clicking on the Img button while you're composing your message.

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:44 pm

thank for explaining it to me...

The first picture here is a drawing of the over all building:

The 6 x 20 section could be enclosed rather easly.

The following pictures are actual photos of the building.

Side View

Front View. You are looking at the 20' wide wall.

Here is the first section I want to convert.... it is the front room

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:47 pm

opinions on the best way to lay it out are welcome. I do understand that you are not responsible for the outcome.... LOL!!!

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:03 pm

I am having problems figuring out the the differences in the roof line. It will effect my ceiling in the control room I am afraid.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:04 pm

Thomas,

Just a bit-o-tech-junk to start off with...

As far as room sizes, dimensions, etc. there are a couple of distinct ratios of dimensions that have come to be recognized as yielding better sounding rooms. The infamous "Golden Ratio".

Here's a couple of em' to follow:
Height 1.00 1.00 1.00
Width 1.14 1.60 1.28
Length 1.60 2.33 1.54

(The full table, including others is discussed rather well in Rod's book.)

Since I already had the finite dimensions of a building that I had to carve up, it's been a bit tricky to carve to give me the optimum amount of space. I would venture that you're gonna' be in about the same situation.

As Rod points out in his book, the height of your room is the 1.00, starting from there, you can figure your other dimensions... like;
Ht: 8.00
W: 12.80
L: 18.64

This by no means definitive how YOU should size your rooms, but the "Golden Ratio" is something to pay attention to.

Max

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:30 pm

Thomas, first you need to re-read this

http://www.recording.org/ftopict-36851.html

and use ALL the bold points as your checklist - Remember, neither Rod nor I will rag on you for providing TOO MUCH detail.

For example, it looks like this started as a simple shed with a tin roof, and then got paneled inside with what used to be called "waferwood", now generically referred to as OSB, even tho there are other, differently made products using the same name Rolling Eyes

If so, then before you decide on things like inner wall placement, etc, you need to find out whether the existing frame is sturdy enough to support what you'll need to do inside or not.

You'll also need to figure out, even before THAT, your noise situation - (see the above link for more on that) or you won't have a CLUE as to what you need, much less how to get there from here.

Please check your building out VERY thoroughly, as if you were going to tell us EXACTLY how to build a carbon copy of it; without this, we've no idea what you can or cannot do.

As to "golden ratios" - everyone has their opinions; mine is to forget "golden ratios" unless you're either starting from scratch or willing to give up quite a bit of usable space, and just go with dimensions for each room that will NOT cause modes to "bunch up", causing obvious acoustic problems that can't be entirely gotten rid of with any reasonable amount of treatment once they've been built.

Rod or I can help you figure out the best use of existing space, but first we need to know ALL about your structure, budget, etc - again, use the link above for a short list and don't be afraid to get long-winded. The alternative will likely be your major disappointment in results... Steve

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:38 pm

Thanks guys..

I will start on that list. I would havereplied earlier, but was out of state...

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:34 am

knightfly wrote:

As to "golden ratios" - everyone has their opinions; mine is to forget "golden ratios" unless you're either starting from scratch or willing to give up quite a bit of usable space, and just go with dimensions for each room that will NOT cause modes to "bunch up", causing obvious acoustic problems that can't be entirely gotten rid of with any reasonable amount of treatment once they've been built.

Steve,

That makes perfect sense and no one can argue with that logic.

So, as I've been corrected/informed; the primary room to really be "concerned" with getting good ratios for is the control room. Any others, just try to get as much room as possible, but pay attention to avoid as many modal issues as practical.

Would that have been a more accurate statement?

I don't want to ever pass out incorrect information or bad advice because I misunderstood some principle or theory. There's already too much BS and poor/ill advised info out there for me too add to it. {Especially with you and Rod here (and elsewhere) trying to keep people from doing stupid stuff.}

I've learned so much from you two that I can't thank you enough... combining that with wanting to help others... and it just don't sit well when I say stupid stuff... (According to the Mrs... I do enough of that around here!)

Thanx,
Max

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:16 am

OK Knightfly and all.... I completed the questionaire...

Thanks for all the help.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:43 pm

just bumping

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