Wrongful work approaches to Independent recording artists.

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:30 pm

I have a good home studio where I produce my music.
Since '96 after countless demo submissions etc I am yet to earn any income from my work.
I persist, it being my passion and I believe , my calling in life.
Yesterday I was contacted by a past aquintance.
He asked me to produce 2 x 60 second musical pieces which were to be the music for the theme and end credits for a Television show. The music he wanted was quite involved , it requiring me to attain score etc as my reference. Two classical pieces. The television channel involved is a particularly well known one.
My payment for my work for this ? .....Nothing.
Apart from having my name listed on the end credits of the TV show.
How can people like this and particularly the television channel be stopped from taking advantage of independent recording artists / engineers in this arrogant and disconsiderent way ?
If there happens to be any formal body or company that can repremand these users I would be very interested to know.

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:37 pm

Quote:

My payment for my work for this ? .....Nothing. How can people like this and particularly the television channel be stopped from taking advantage of independent recording artists / engineers in this arrogant and disconsiderent way ?

Why did you not charge for your work???
You have no one to blame but yourself for giving away your talents.[/quote]

The television channel has nothing to do with this, the shows executive producer was paid, why didnt he pay you???

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:56 pm

As long as you're willing to work for free, folks are going to take advantage of it. If you want to get paid for your work, send them a quote for the job. If they like your work and your rates are reasonable, you'll get paid.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:07 am

Well no wonder you're not making any money from your studio! You're not charging anything!

How was the deal negotiated? It's not their job to just give you money, it's your job to ask for it. You're the one who sets the rates buddy!

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:21 am

Always remember..... Something for nothing is worth nothing. Always charge something, even if you lowball it. I've made my living working in audio for over 36 years so......

Rich in equipment. Poor in finances.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:49 am

TVPostSound wrote:

Quote:

My payment for my work for this ? .....Nothing. How can people like this and particularly the television channel be stopped from taking advantage of independent recording artists / engineers in this arrogant and disconsiderent way ?

Why did you not charge for your work???
You have no one to blame but yourself for giving away your talents.

The television channel has nothing to do with this, the shows executive producer was paid, why didnt he pay you???[/quote]

You obviously misunderstood my post.
First off read my lips you fool. The television channel believe me has EVERYTHING to do with it. Why? It's glaringly obvious. The show's executive producer works for and on behalf of the television channel.
Therefore ANYBODY employed by that television channel IS that television channel and ALL are responsible.
Secondly, plainly my post was an enquiry as to what official organisations if any might help PROTECT independent recording artists and enginners from unscrupulous users like the afore mentioned.
Finally and most importantly, do you think I would be so damn stupid as to work for free ? NEVER ! NEVER ! NEVER !
I told the contact who originally foolishly approached me about the work what he could do with it.
I'm sure you are aware of the phrase " where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:59 am

zemlin wrote:

As long as you're willing to work for free, folks are going to take advantage of it. If you want to get paid for your work, send them a quote for the job. If they like your work and your rates are reasonable, you'll get paid.

Hi Zemlin. Love your photo. Read my quote reply to TVpostsound.
And by the way, I've made quite good earnings from my studio work. In fact recently I'm signed with a 3 year contract.
I referred to my DEMO submissions that were'nt being heard by the right ears ( up until now that is ).
As you of course will well realise there is OTHER work that audio engineers do in their studios isn't there. It's paid me well.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:10 am

I still don't get it. You first postmake it sound like you did the work and got your name in the credits. Is that the case or not? Your next post makes it sound like you told them to take a hike. Which is it?

If you did the work without negotiating any sort of contract and just expected to work it out later, then you're the fool.

If you they told you up front that they wouldn't pay for your work and you told them to get lost, then you didn't get taken adavantage of and are just complaining that they would even come to you under those terms?

You're not making a lot of sense.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:19 am

Quote:

You obviously misunderstood my post.
First off read my lips you fool

If thats your attitude, then you know where to stick it too!!!!

Hope thats not your professional demeanor, or maybe you would never be stupid enough to say that to someones face.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:31 pm

speakeasy wrote:

Since '96 after countless demo submissions etc I am yet to earn any income from my work.

vs.

speakeasy wrote:

And by the way, I've made quite good earnings from my studio work

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:13 am

If you are going to work for free then that is what people will want to pay you. They are not going to GIVE you money unless you ask for it

I have a good friend that is making a very comfortable living off doing composing for video programs. He is very savvy in working with TV producers and networks and negotiates all kinds of contracts on a daily basis. You might want to talk to someone who is in the business and find out how they go about negotiating the price and how to get a proper contract arranged with the people who are paying for your services.

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:40 am

>>particularly the television channel be stopped from taking advantage of independent recording artists / engineers in this arrogant and disconsiderent way ?<<

The TV channel has NOTHING to do with it. It is the person who's selling them the music (your friend in this case) that's asking you to work for free. But, asking is NOT forcing...

>>If there happens to be any formal body or company that can repremand these users I would be very interested to know<<

Ah! Allow me to propose the following:

1) If you are a COMPOSER you would have jumped at the chance to have TV credits for a show, for obvious reasons. Virtually EVERY composer known to man has started doing free work. Either for student films or any thing that could give them exposure AND credits. That's the way it has been and the way it will be.

2) If you are NOT a COMPOSER and are instead more of a producer then, that would not be a field you are interested in therefore, the point is moot.

3) People can (and will) ask for whatever they think they can get. It is up to you, and ONLY you to decide when it's worth doing a job for free and when it isn't.

It is NOT illegal to ask for a freebie or a spec deal.

Don't be so bitter - it doesn't help you further your career. Look at everything as a possible opportunity and then, decide whether that opportunity is worth anything to you or not...and act accordingly.

If your composition/production work is good you'll get better gigs in due time.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:55 am

CombatWombat wrote:

I still don't get it. You first postmake it sound like you did the work and got your name in the credits. Is that the case or not? Your next post makes it sound like you told them to take a hike. Which is it?

If you did the work without negotiating any sort of contract and just expected to work it out later, then you're the fool.

If you they told you up front that they wouldn't pay for your work and you told them to get lost, then you didn't get taken adavantage of and are just complaining that they would even come to you under those terms?

You're not making a lot of sense.

CombatWombat is a great name for unintelligent beings such as yourself.
I'll spell it out. I never at any stage said that I DID ANY work for these users AT ALL and I also have had enough god damn industry experience to know better. MY POST originally was simply to ENQUIRE as to whether AS IN THE CASE OF OTHER ORGINISATIONS such as CONSUMER AFFAIRS, MINISTRY OF FAIR TRADING, etc etc, there might be a company that acts on behallf of independent recording artists and engineers industry and professional rights.
WHY DO I ASK ?
Simple - BECAUSE I WANT TO REPORT THESE USERS in the hope that I might HELP OTHERS. GET it now ? No ?
OK, for example, in case of COPYRIGHT, if it is deemed that the unlawful copying of ANY work be it music, recording, artwork or any product non arts related, then there is action that can be taken to repremand and even penalise unscrupulous and unethical people who take advantage of professionals.
But the thing is NO ONE as yet has responded in anyway helpful at all, but that's fine because it just confirms that right now, this being my last post,
I have great things to do.
Thanks sincerely to ( you know who you are ) for your help with Kontact.
Might'nt have seemed much at the time, but helped me immensley.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:09 am

>>for example, in case of COPYRIGHT, if it is deemed that the unlawful copying of ANY work <<

Breaking a law is NOT the same as asking someone to do a 60 sec. piece for free.

You are confusing the two.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:45 am

Jesus Christ! Listen to yourself! You sound like a little kid. I don't know who you think you're impressing by tossing out the insults and throwing a little temper tantrum. It reminds me of my 6-year-old nephew, seriously.

I'm glad you have enough "god damn industry experience" to know that you shouldn't work for free. Congrats. :yes:

And, just to let you in on a little secret about communication. If you send out a message, and no one understands it...it's YOUR fault. Not ours. Interesting concept!

Love,
Tyler

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