first gig: short film audio advice

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:41 am

Hey guys,
I've just scored my first gig as location sound engineer for a short feature film. Having never done a 'on location' shoot before i wanted to get some advice and tips:
The basic idea is - 5 soldiers in the bush, all have speaking parts.
I assume we'll have generator power onsite so the gear probably doesn't have to be battery powered.

My thoughts were trying to get a lapel mic on each of them, along with a boom mic (or two) backup.

That's a fair amount of gear though, this is all budget dependent too.

I have no idea what recording medium i should use. I have a ProTools LE 002 Console rig but it probably isn't the most portable. It'd be great to use it though if possible because i know it inside out.

Did i mention i have a meeting tomorrow where i'll have to discuss options with the Producers and Directors??!!

Any help, tips and experience would be great. Specific brands and models of gear, and why you reccommend it would be great too.

Thanks all.
Chris

Edit:
Ok further to my above post,
I've had reccommendations of Sunnheisher or Neumann for booms, but i have free access to AudioTechnica 815's. How do they compare?

Also for lapels, top line models are the lectrosonic RF packs with either Sanken or Countrymen lapels. I have access to Sony URX-P1 & URX-B1 packs with sony standard lapels? Also with these sony receive packs, the mini-jack ouput on them, is that at line or mic level?

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:02 pm

Well first off, congratulations! I've done a fair amount of industrial films in the past, in my earlier days. All mono on a Nagra III and matching mixer and once in awhile on a IV either with crystal sync or pilot tone, with the cable connected to the Arriflex BL camera.

I have a Audio Technica 815 long shotgun Mike. It's OK. Nothing great but it works.

I do love both the Neumann stereo shotgun and all of the numerous Sennheiser shotgun microphones. The stereo Neumann is just incredible sounding, too bad I don't own one of those! I also have one of the short modular Sennheiser shotguns whose active body is interchangeable with the MKE2 Omni-directional lavalier's. It's nice on a camcorder and when you don't need a really long reaching microphone like the 815.

Both the Sony and Lectrosonic's are a great choice and I would recommend either one. As far as the output level on the receiver is concerned, not sure about that one? I believe it is a low level line signal so it is appropriate in either a low gain padded microphone input or line level input? You might even find a mic/line output switch option?

I can't quite imagine trying to do a film with a desktop ProTools rig?? I just wouldn't trust anything but a dedicated recorder. There are numerous other flash and digital linear tape or hard drive recorders that are dedicated devices. I'de even go so far as to say a used TASCAM DA98/88/78/38, preferably with a SY88 sync card (which the 38 cannot accommodate)? Even without one!

Conversely, wireless microphones aren't completely necessary anymore either. There are numerous miniature flash memory recorders that can be placed on each actor. They run wild, can be quickly input/ingested into the computer and synchronized after-the-fact. In that case, no wireless microphones need be used and without those, no interference problems, multipath, channel assignments, etc., which can become quite tricky as adjacent channels can quite frequently be problematic.

For the above scenarios, a Hollywood clapper is very important also, if time code is not really being utilized.

QUIET ON THE SET!
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:27 pm

Stereo mics???
You're shooting dialog right?? The dialog will be mixed in center, wether its surround or stereo.

Rent a Sennheiser 416, boom pole, shock mount, and a "dead rabbit".
Field recorder, try a Sound Devices 302.

A tightly boomed shotgun sounds better than any lav, unless the actors are riding horses or running etc.

Dont assume you will have a generator, even if you have one, a recorder on batteries gives you more freedom of movement.

Check ou this news group too:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound/topics?lnk=gschg&hl=en

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:15 am

Well, that Neumann stereo shotgun is really quite something! I had the opportunity to use it recently and it just blew me away, for a shoot at the US postal services training Center in Potomac, Maryland. Truly beautiful sounding, just like a Neumann!

And TVPostSound, I can understand why this person would want to use wireless Lav's. Because they are quite not up to speed running a boom pole. Now, most people believe that boom microphone should be placed overhead. But that's not always practical. Sometimes, you want to run the boom pole low, pointing upwards. There, now you know what to do. It gets tricky flipping that shotgun Mike back and forth during interactive dialog. Nothing a little carpal tunnel syndrome won't help.

And don't forget, those dead rabbits begin to smell after a while.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:27 am

Correct me if i' wrong, but isn't the SoundDevices 302 only a field mixer, not a recorder.

So i got some more info today:

There will definitely be a generator on site.
Last shoot they ran audio direct to camera running a DAT backup.

The director also wants a headphone feed of the dialog, any reccommendations on how i should do this. I was thinking a hardwired line if possible from the mixer to directors position (in which case its simple), but i'm pretty sure he may want a wireless feed. Two current options are Comtek PR-72B or Lectrosonics IFB-R1A, but then i need to get a UHF transmitter

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:11 pm

If the talent is stationary in the bushes during the scene, how about running a WIRED mic out there? perhaps you can even get the mic fairly close to the source(s) without getting in the way of the shot on a stand, eliminating a boom op entirely.

In my experience with the Sony Lavs, on the transmitters, turn up the input pad (-6 or -9 dB works for me, higher if they're shouting or using live ammo), or the companding will smoosh the life outta yr dialog rather mercilessly, as well as bringing up background noise (the genny, camera noise, etc) by at least those amounts. Let whoever is cutting and/or posting the film do a final compression, with better circuitry and/or plug-ins. and the mini output jacks on the recievers are for your heaphones, but I suppose they can be used for an extra output if you need 'em. If you use the lectrosonics system, go for the countryman mic capsules.

As far as the director's headphone feed, if he's paying for a wireless unit, use one. If not, run a mix down a wire to him. Mono is fine for this. In fact, I suggest you monitor in mono for downstream compatability, as you'll be able to hear any phasing issues between multi-mic setups easier.

You need a small mixer with no fewer than 8 mic/line inputs if you go with that many lavs and boom mics. You won't have time to repatch, so label/colour-code each mic transmitter/receiver and it's corresponding input on the mixer. It also needs an aux send (for the director's audio) as well as the obligatory main outs to camera and backup media. I don't think the SoundDevices mixer will work for you...a nice piece, though.

Have fun, and don't forget to prepare for every possibility Mama Nature can throw at you!

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:51 pm

I'm going to back up TVPostSound on this. Dialog is mono. Always. With the the exception of that guy who can speak in stereo. I think he lives near Cherynoble(sp?). Otherwise, mono. Multiple mono sources, like 5 guys in the bushes(ie. 5 mono sources) are still mono. Make sure you record 30 seconds of room tone, or ambience at every location. Do this in mono for the dialog editor. If you are feeling like you have the time and the cooperation of the crew, record some stereo ambience for the effects editor.
Good luck

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:42 am

Thanks for all the advice guy and girls. I'll probably be back with some more questions shortly as the time gets closer. It's looking like the budget won't allow for lapel mics, so it'll probably be two shotguns recording straight to camera with DAT backup.

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:20 am

In a low budget recording where there is no jam sync between audio and the camera's you need a mixer to directly feed the cam.(s) This greatly simplifies the post production process, other wise be prepared to be taking extensive notation...a lot to bite off for a first gig. Field mixers usually can accommodate at least two monitor (headphone) feeds as well as a monitor"return" (foldback) from the camera. Of course you want a backup, in this case a DAT that you will hopefully never utilize.
Going out with a 002 unit is asking for a disaster. When on location think hardware not software. Aside from micing, a field mixer will solve all of the concerns you mentioned.

p.s. I just bought a Rolls 422 field mixer, which admittedly is a 'cheap' name, but it is ideal for this purpose, extremely quiet, clean and functional...$375. While a 'pro' would never use such a device...when push comes to shove and your SD goes down--this baby will do the job.

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:19 am

When I do on-location, I like to record to minidisc or a similar format, rather than direct to PC - or record to both for redundancy. Its a bad day when your PC crashes during the "perfect" take. Wink

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:34 am

Do you have a boom-op or are you doing it yourself? A great boom-op is worth his/her weight in platinum.

Be a real PITA about getting the generator as far away from the set as possible, preferably down-wind. See if you can park a few vehicles between the generator and the set, and get some sound blankets, etc. around it if you can as well. Unless there is going to be a lot of pyro, etc. to bury the generator noise it can very tough to get rid of the generator in audio post.

When you get arguments about what you want to do to record quality production sound just remind them that every hour and every dollar they spend on the production sound will save them five in audio post.

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