Ribbon Mic Mini-forum

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:11 am

Hi all;

I'd like to start a sane, professional, civil discussion on the state (and spate) of ribbon mics out there available today. It seems like every time I turn around, there's a bunch of new ones availabe - some brands I've just started hearing about, some even newer than that.

In no particular order, and no particular model, I'd be interested in reading about folk's experiences with these, including bang for the buck, reliability, real-world results, preamp issues, etc. etc. (Anything is fair game, as long as your statements are provable or at least based on something tangible. Gut reactions are OK too, but no needless bashing or trash talking! Hahaha)

I've just come across some brands like Shiny Box,Cascade, (seem to have a competitor to the SF-12 going on, too!) Tripps-Crowly, and many other newcomers I can't recall at the moment. (Add your favorite here; seems like every time I look at ribbons for sale on Ebay, there's yet another strange new brand popping up.)

I'm sure a lot of these have at least something of a far-eastern heritage, let alone country of origin, but I always keep an open mind.

How about you? Any favorites? Dogs? Good experiences, bad ones? Mainly, I'd like to know the real-world difference between the big guys and the new upstarts. They can't all be as good as they claim, yet I'm sure there's actually a lot of very good and quite usuable mid-level new ribbons out there....

Anyone?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:55 am

i was very impressed with the sax quartet samples of the cascade x-15...

http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_X-15.html

i inquired at klaus heyne's over at PSW and the mic got rammed by those in the know... apparently the specs are not completely straight...

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/15683/1181/

FWIW,

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:23 am

well, that's a good start, alright. But I have to admit, I'm sensing a bit of snobbery in those posts.

What I'm hoping for is real-world listening and testing, not just complaints and pot shots without testing them in use. I also realize you can't go by just the Disney samples alone (I too heard them, and liked them), and figured the Cascades are Chinese.

But even if they are, what are they like in real world use, etc? Worth the $, or better to wait on the upper end stuff? Lots of choices out there, and I'm hoping to get as much info as possible.

Hope to hear more from those who own or have used any of these, good or bad....

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:17 pm

Ribbons seems to be all the fashion right now. A lot of models are coming to the market right now.

To put it simply, in my mind, there is a reason that ribbon technology was more or less dead a long time, overtaken by the in almost every respect superior condensor mic.

My own experience is limited to running an SF24 for classical remote recording. I find it difficult to use, extremely sensisitive to the room making it more or less useless in many places. A few recordings has been really superb: on soprano singers (the opera type) where it sort of tames the worst parts, on grand piano, on brass. Considering how seldom I use it, it is now up for sale.

Gunnar

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:55 pm

Interesting to hear that, Gunnar. I have access to an SF-12, which keeps my happy, but as for one of my own, I'm still finding the cost of the SF-24 extremely dear; cannot afford one right now, although I'd be interested in chatting with you privately about yours, and what you might want for it.)

I've got an AEA RE84 here, and it's simply gorgeous - at least up close, on male vocal and other things that work better in a controlled environment. (I doubt I'd EVER take this out on a gig...)

Having seen the new Cascade stereo ribbon (very similar looking to the Royer stereo, but obviously a cheaper outing), I'm wondering what the net difference would be, for the times I use it. I'm NOT knocking the good folks at Royer, and I know they make a fine product. But for the $ I'd spend on the SF-12 or 24 vs. the few times I'd use it, I'm wondering if the Cascade isn't a better deal overall.

I can't help but feel the proliferation of ribbon mics - good, bad, somewhere in the middle - might make for a more level playing field overall. More folks can have access to them, and get a taste of what the fuss is all about...

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:53 pm

My experience with getting desirable results from ribbon mics has been when they are employed as spot mics. Not so much as main stereo arrays. My all-round favorite ribbon would probably be the Coles 4038. Brass, pianos, harps, lutes, guitar cabinets, percussion all sound just wonderful through those mics.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:20 pm

A couple of recent recordings of mine with nothing but two R-122 in Blumlein:

viola, clarinet, and cello

solo piano

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:17 am

David those two examples sure were sweet! And what kind of preamp? Very quiet.

And what about that Nady "tube ribbon"??

I test ribbon microphones by blowing into them. If they don't sound good after I blow into them, you can give them to me.

I can't get these ribbons out of my hair!
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:31 am

The pres were simply the board pres in a Yamaha DM2000, and after running the mic level signal through about 300 feet of balanced line. I've gotta bring some better pres and an onstage recorder in there sometime and see what happens.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:57 am

Ahhh....ribbons. I love em. No.... I hate em....

They're great for some things. I often use ribbons for certain things and they work well. Other times, I try to use them and just don't like them.

For example -

I use them on operatic soprano and I LOVE them.

I use M/S or Blumlein spots in orchestras and I just can't get enough of them. They blend well and really add serious depth.

I like using M/S on piano accompaniment with ribbons. It allows for good rejection of the solo instrument and still gets a great stereo image with great depth.

On the other hand...

I owned an SF12 and I could not find an application where I preferred it over other mics with the exception of vocals. I tried it over a few orchestras and couldn't get a mix that I liked (even after over an hour trying to get it set up.)

I tried another Blumlein pair (ribbons) over a Balalaika orchestra recently and, while the sound was smooth, the balance was all wrong.

My whole thought on the subject is simple. Use the right mic for the job, regardless of whether it's a ribbon, condenser, or dynamic. What's right for engineer A and group A may be different than what's right for engineer B and group B.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:02 am

I should also state that I prefer the figure 8 pickup from a ribbon over that found in a dual capsule condenser.

To me, the pattern is more predictable and.....organic? When I do M/S, it's almost always with the M130/M160 combo. Occassionally, I use a Schoeps CMC6 Mk4 (or MK21) as the mid as well if I need a little more forwardness.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:50 am

Well, after all of these very nice high-end models have been discussed, I guess my input on a "cheap-o" ribbon is moot, but here goes...
The only (2) ribbons that I have are the Beyer M160 and the Apex 210.
I'm sure that you are familiar with the M160. It is very smooth, and has the uncanny ability to remove that "edgeiness" that can occur from certain instruments (fiddles, brass, winds).
The Apex is no way near that! It is probably made in the same factory as the Nady and the Cascade models. Typical Chinese affair-lots of accessories (pretty case, windscreen,etc), OK fit-and-finish. And I trusted the Apex to have maybe better performance because Apex has been around for a number of years designing transducers. Maybe not. But the mic has it's place as a "color" for vocals, some guitar amps (small Fenders, not a Marshall stack!), and some acoustic instruments. The (2) lobes of the figure-8 pattern have remarkably different timbres. The "rear" side of the mic is very dark compared to the "front", and this can be good if you're doing a country or rock thang. But I would reserve a mic like that for "character" as opposed to "natural" or "realistic" results, but you already knew that, right? My only real bitch about it is the
attached cable. Their other model has an XLR socket. Had I realized this difference, I'd have gone with the 205. That, and the fact that some dude named "Kurt" who used to be a mod here flamed me when I brought up the mic last year. Of course, he wouldn't touch a mic like that with a 10-foot pole, but I've found it pretty useful...

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:56 am

Post some clips! Smile

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:34 am

I've put this one up elsewhere on this forum before...but here it is for this one.

http://www.sublymerecords.com/toni.mp3

The soprano is recorded with a Beyer M130.

The piano is recorded with an M/S pair of M130/M160.

The only condensers are:
1 under the piano (Schoeps CMC 6 MK 4) mixed in VERY lightly

2 hall mics (Gefell M296 - can you tell I love these mics. I can't think of a recording that I've done in the past 2.5 years in which I HAVEN'T used these mics).

I'll post a clip in the next couple days with a chamber orchestra recording that I did of the Strauss Serenade for 13 Winds in which an M/S ribbon pair was the primary pair also with M296 omni flanks in-hall. It's a VERY live recording (lots of natural reverb) but I'm perfectly okay with that. It sounds fine and is representative of what was actually being heard in the venue.

Cheers -

J.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:31 am

Jeremy, what in the world did the under-piano mic do for the sound? This is very new to me, and I'm very curious.

This topic sponsored by: