Hey,care to critique some metal/rock?(Tool/Kyuss/Pink Floyd)

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:55 pm

Hey, guys. Been a while, but I finally finished some new music and I would really appreciate some feedback. Good or bad. I picked the two songs that I felt turned out the best. One hard and one soft.

Without further adieu....

Hard:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=567397&songID=5266180

Soft:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=567397&songID=5266129

Thanks guys.[/url]

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:25 am

Vocals are too far back, IMO.

I like the second tune better. Was longing for a hook in the first tune that never quite fully paid off. But, who am I? I expect a hook. It's your expression not mine. Good luck.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:30 am

sheet wrote:

Vocals are too far back, IMO.

I like the second tune better. Was longing for a hook in the first tune that never quite fully paid off. But, who am I? I expect a hook. It's your expression not mine. Good luck.

Hey, thanks for the response. Its funny, listening to all the hook driven music throughout my years, you would think that the concept would have been drilled into me, but it never turns out that way for some reason. You certainly arent the only person to bring it up, I assure you. I guess the hookiest song I have is "Siren Song" but even its not set up in a verse/chorus format. Its more like one big chorus. Im a wierdo I guess. Very Happy

Thanks for taking the time to listen. I truly appreciate it.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:48 pm

Maybe it is what we are conditioned for...instant gratification. We want the fix and then another song. Out attension span is retarded.

I am ADD OCD, which is why I like Dream Theater. The tunes are meaningless to me. I get non stop rockin fills, grooves, hooks, etc. Any normal band would die to have just one the Dream Theater's hooks in a song, much less the 50 or so they put in.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:46 pm

Damn. 61 views and no suggestions. Someone say "the bass drum is thin and anemic" or perhaps even "your composition skills leave something to be desired to say the least".

Gimme somethin!! Smile

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:40 pm

OK, you want some feedback? Input? I'm not trying to be punny here! At least I don't think so?

Heavy-metal, regardless of genre, i.e. Christ or, anti-Christ oriented doesn't do much for me because of its inherent anger factor and it's even worse when guitars are recorded direct, through brutal processing, such as you use. I'd much rather prefer to hear such anger coming from a tube amplifier, devoid of effects petals and Miked' with a Shure SM 57 into even a Beringer mixer. That direct guitar effect makes your recording almost unlistenable. I assume you are the guitarist? Sorry but that's a fact Jack.

The drums on the heavy-metal number start off without definition. They're mud. Quite underwhelming. No bite. No grip. That's because the guitar started too loud later, giving you no where to go, from the beginning, with anything else. It improves later in the song but not by much. It's over loud, everything. Heavy-metal may be the definition of loud but you must start with a dynamic sounding mix, before you completely crunch the life out of it, while mastering or baptizing. Besides, that's not a very Christian thing to do to your music, if this is Christian music? Jesus Christ man! Where are the melodies? I don't think that sentence came out right?

Your mellow music, was quite a bit nicer, except for those direct guitars. Not sure what the fascination is about that? The vocals were the best recorded and best mixed part. Then those direct guitars again.

Did I mention those direct guitars?

The bass? There was a bass? I mean don't crucify me but it didn't appear to punch out of the mix either? I'll let you hang on that one. But next time, you'll have to nail it!

Reverently and facetiously
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:45 am

RemyRAD wrote:

OK, you want some feedback? Input? I'm not trying to be punny here! At least I don't think so?

Heavy-metal, regardless of genre, i.e. Christ or, anti-Christ oriented doesn't do much for me because of its inherent anger factor and it's even worse when guitars are recorded direct, through brutal processing, such as you use. I'd much rather prefer to hear such anger coming from a tube amplifier, devoid of effects petals and Miked' with a Shure SM 57 into even a Beringer mixer. That direct guitar effect makes your recording almost unlistenable. I assume you are the guitarist? Sorry but that's a fact Jack.

The drums on the heavy-metal number start off without definition. They're mud. Quite underwhelming. No bite. No grip. That's because the guitar started too loud later, giving you no where to go, from the beginning, with anything else. It improves later in the song but not by much. It's over loud, everything. Heavy-metal may be the definition of loud but you must start with a dynamic sounding mix, before you completely crunch the life out of it, while mastering or baptizing. Besides, that's not a very Christian thing to do to your music, if this is Christian music? Jesus Christ man! Where are the melodies? I don't think that sentence came out right?

Your mellow music, was quite a bit nicer, except for those direct guitars. Not sure what the fascination is about that? The vocals were the best recorded and best mixed part. Then those direct guitars again.

Did I mention those direct guitars?

The bass? There was a bass? I mean don't crucify me but it didn't appear to punch out of the mix either? I'll let you hang on that one. But next time, you'll have to nail it!

Reverently and facetiously
Ms. Remy Ann David

Hmm. I can't figure out if you are a Christian who has been offended....an anti-christian who has been offended...or just a bitch who hasn't been fucked in a while. (Im leaning toward the latter two). Either way, if this is the way moderators conduct themselves on this forum, Im pretty sure I don't care to stick around and you can go ahead and delete this post.

Just for your info, since your ear is obviously so well trained. All guitars(clean or dirty) were recorded as follows:

$4000 tube amp(Diezel VH4) -> Celestion V30's -> SM57 -> Sebatron Thorax(i think he is popular around here) -> DAW

No compression on the guitars until final mixdown and then only 1.4db across the master bus. Absolutely no effects in the amp loop or otherwise. As you know, im sure, distorted guitar is pretty compressed as is. So actually, in the end, the guitar is completely clean.

As for your take on heavy metal. It seems just about as limited as your aural skill set. Perhaps, if you had more experience with the genre(which by your own admission you hate, which means you dont) I might consider trying to glean what little help you actually offered from the pile of shit your just spewed.

But as it stands, Ill just let it slide. Very Happy

P.S. Since you seem to have such a problem with the Christian religion, I thought you might like to know that "Father-King-Saviour" is a tongue in cheek glorification of "spiritual leaders". It parallells the actions of both Bush and Osama bin Laden(thats why it ends with the two speaking over eachother) and how, in my opinion, they are different sides of the same coin. Bush believes he is an agent of God, and so does Osama It is anything but Christian, I assure you.

But, Im sure you knew all this. You seem smart. Wink

P.S.S If and of the other mods see this.....if you have to delete this, please foward it on to Miss Remy for me.

P.S.S.S Sorry, i forgot to thank Remy for responding.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:46 pm

Your reply did give me a good laugh. I appreciate your observations and humor. I really wasn't trying to be offensive but honest in my aural perceptions. What? You really didn't want honesty did you?

As evident by your description of your recording process, your engineering chops need a lot of work. THE GUITARS SOUND BAD! THE DRUMS SOUND BAD! THE BASS SOUNDS BAD. The mix and recording process sounds bad. YOU ASKED. AND I RESPONDED. And it didn't cost you a thing.

It seems to me that you have all of the equipment and tools in place to provide a better product, by your descriptions? What you don't have is the knowledge, skills, technique and experience yet. Your clients will be as brutally honest as I have been. You do want clients don't you?

So shut up, sit down, take a deep breath, relax and learn something here from Recording.org's vast professional, lifelong, career engineers that have always made our living in this highly competitive industry. We're not beginner's but you are. If you stick around long enough, you might learn something? Oh? I forgot? You must already know everything?

I said that heavy metal wasn't my cup of tea and you are correct, I don't take on many heavy metal projects but I have and do, if I believe they are worthy of my skills. Most aren't, such as yourself. I didn't say that all heavy metal was poorly engineered, like yours. I like KISS, METALLICA, and similar bands that are musically more intricate, disciplined and professionally engineered and produced. Not something that makes me wince or feel uncomfortable, like your product. You can learn from those folks just by listening, which you haven't done yet.

What can I do for you? You'll never know and that's all right by me. I may not be always politically correct because I don't intend to be. Everybody has lost their sense of humor. I tell it like I see it and hear it. You just wanted praise and accolades and you're offended because you didn't get it. That's OK, you're learning and I'm sure (well not really sure) that you'll get better at this?

I'm certainly not against Christianity. In fact, I was in charge of audio at one of our countries historic and presidential churches here in our nation's capital . I appreciate anybody's religion who are peaceful and genuine and not people who manipulate their religion for their own purposes such as our "Christian fundamentalist" President and those other whack jobs in the Middle East, with their "peaceful Islamic religion" and car bombs. In fact I know plenty of Muslims who are true Islamic Muslims and peaceful people and they don't like what the Middle East terrorists are doing to their religion either. Much of your wordage included references to biblical content and so, one might be inclined to believe you're poorly produced "fundamentally lackluster music", was Christian-based rock-and-roll? By your description your "tongue-in-cheek" references to your biblical wordage might be taken as an insult by good Christians? I didn't, because I'm not Christian nor Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist but a Judeo-Christian born atheist. And that's why I believe in myself and my engineering skills and talents and so do others as evidence by my over 37 years making a living doing audio at the highest scale.

Now, what else would you like to know?
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:02 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

I really wasn't trying to be offensive but honest in my aural perceptions.

RemyRad wrote:

I mean don't crucify me but it didn't appear to punch out of the mix either? I'll let you hang on that one. But next time, you'll have to nail it!

1. Hmm. Call me crazy, but reading your post, Im pretty sure you were under the impression that it was a Christian song.

2. Since we agree on #1, you must be as dumb as you seem to not know that making jokes about something as sensitive as the crucifixion in that manner would be HIGHLY offensive to someone who would have enough religious conviction to write the song in question.

So, im not buying your bullshit. Bullshit which was the sole reason I took such an offensive stance. Ohh, you can try to make it out like my aggresive response is due to the fact that you didn't provide some kind of ego boost. But, you would be wrong. I was just discussing with my co-worker how rude your post was and that it was not becoming, in my opinion, of a forum moderator...who exists to point people in the right direction. It was instead a heated and emotionally charged barrage of insults directed at someone you thought you knew.

In regard, again, to your obvious bias and lack of knowledge in the realm of heavy music. It is evident again in your reference to fucking KISS and METALLICA? What, you thought you would throw out a couple references to bands of a long gone era(which I still happen to enjoy) and make me believe you have a single shred of credibility in the realm of modern metal? Give me a fucking break. Perhaps THATS why you dont take on metal projects. Because noone thinks your skills are worthy of their music.

In 37 years i would have hoped that you would have realized that music changes. You sound like any other old person complaining about the glory days of music. And you know what, I usually agree with people who make those statements. But then again, those people usually have a knowledgebase conducive to making such assertions.

That signal chain i gave you. Thats the extent of my gear. Thats it. I have been working and trying to scrape up every bit of knowledge I can. And believe it or not(im sure you can't), I have made leaps and bounds. Or so says the general consensus.

We both know that your "advice" was not presented in a manner which was intended to do anything other than offend. But, you know what, if telling yourself that you did the right thing here makes you sleep better at night. Knock yourself out.

In conclusion, I'll just say.....I thought age brought wisdom......not 50 something has-been bitches on the bleed.

Im done with this.

P.S. Thank you SHEET, for your helpful feedback. I hope more moderators around here actually try to help, as opposed to insult. I actually have been thinking about what you said and mentioned it to my coworker today as well. Trying to figure out why my music doesnt have hooks and whether thats a weakness I need to address.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Ohh, and Miss RemyRAD. Here's a jewel from the past

http://www.recording.org/ftopict-36424-.html

You were much nicer back then. Helpful even. Hell, this was my first tool for trying to learn how to make my music sound better. I go back and listen to my first recordings. "Nil" on my site for example, and then listen to my newer recordings and I have made a lot of progress in my opinion. Progress due to helpful posts such as above you might say. Though I must admit, I should have come back with a clip. Im thinking your response might have been a little more helpful, were you not preoccupied with more religious matters.

What happened?

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:57 pm

Your obviously have no sense of humor.

Your manners, are far worse then my colorful replies. And just what do you hope to achieve by taking this kind of rude and foul attack? And how can you say that my clever use of biblical terms is offensive? It is you who are offensive.

Go away!
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:11 pm

Ahh, and she submits. You know what the kicker is. Im one of the nicest people you will ever meet!!! Actually on my ride home, after my last post, I even had little pangs of guilt. I hate being mean to people.

You just happen to insult the one thing in this world I care about, my music, offering little helpful advice to address the issues you had wiith it. Had you been more constructive, I would be nicer....as evidenced by our past communications.

And damnit, I have a great sense of humor. I actually appreciated the intelligence of your puns. Truly. Very witty. Just misdirected.

RemyRAD wrote:

And how can you say that my clever use of biblical terms is offensive?

Because I asked my fundamental christian co-worker what he though just to make sure. And Im pretty sure ifi you asked a few people around here, some might agree.

Its just that Im trying hard here with my music, and you come in and shit all over what I care about in an obviously non-constructive manner. So I weighed and measured what I thought someone who does that deserves. Funny thing is. Im truly not insulted, because you words bear no weight with me now.

Anyway, you might appreciate this.

Don't go playing the martyr now Miss Remy *nudge nudge wink wink*

I am more than willing to go away.

And a good day to you Miss.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:39 pm

Your fundamental Christian coworker is a bigot, without a sense of humor. Do you consult him like Nancy Reagan consults astrologers? Should we call you Ronnie?

Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:43 pm

Cmon Remy. The guy believes the fricking earth is 6000 years old. hell yeah he's a biggot. Even worse, he believes that FOX actually IS "Fair and Balanced".

Thats not the point. The point is, if I was a moderator, and I was directing my comments to a guy whose song made me believe he was a fundamentalist Christian, I would tend to stay away from the "Hah-hah, Christ got crucified" puns.

Thats the only reason I got upset. Promise.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:50 pm

So when can we set up some studio time? Very Happy

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