Help me lighten my load

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Hey guys -

I've decided to start lightening my load on remotes and I thought I'd hit you guys up for ideas. Here's what I'm going to do - I'll list the stuff that I take on gigs and why. Then I'll list what I consider to be my requirements and then I want to see if any of you guys have some innovative or creative ideas.

What I take -

-Mics (not looking at any changes here)
-Cables (not really looking for changes here either)
-Preamps (usually 16 channels - 8 primary are usually Millennia or Grace - 8 secondary are Mackie Onyx 800R)
-AD/DA - Lynx Aurora 8 and Benchmark DAC1
-Recorders - Computer with monitor/KB/Mouse and Alesis HD24 as backup/redundant system. The Lynx has the ADAT card installed so I can send AES to the PC and ADAT to the HD24 at the same time.
-Monitoring - most gigs are just headphones- Beyer 770Pros and AKG 240S's - occassionally it's Adam A7 monitors in transit cases.

What my requirements are -

-Minimum of 8 track count for on-location. 16 or more preferred.
-Redundancy capability.
-Must keep my 8 primary pairs of preamps (or something of similar build/sound quality)

My plan is to eventually migrate to a laptop setup which would dramatically cut down on the amount of gear needed to be carried. However, that's not in the budget at the moment. I do have a good firewire card in the PC though, so if I go with a firewire type interface, I can always change later to the laptop and still be okay. When I go to the laptop, it will be an ADK.

My current thoughts were to get some type of 2-track solid-state recorder with digital inputs and allow the Lynx to do some of the internal mixing and send a 2-track safety to the second device via AES (using AES to SPDIF imp converter if necessary) or analog if absolutely necessary.

However, I've also been considering using something like the Fireface 800 to act as the interface as well as the HP amp and/or monitor amp and have it do the internal mixing and send out an SPDIF safety signal to the backup recorder. In this case, I would have a 12 track count system (8 primary plus the 4 built-in) and I could always drag out extra pres without having to add another rack. If necessary, I could have as many as 20 tracks if necessary if I add both the Grace and the Millennia (8 through the lightpipe, 8 through the line inputs and 4 preamps built-in).

I'm not terribly worried about the quality of the conversion as I'd likely rarely use the built-in conversion and I've been pleased in the past with RME's quality. I wouldn't expect the pres to be worth much, but I suppose they could cover a woodwind spot mic or brass spot mic without much issue. (obviously not right for ribbons though, so that would be somewhat limiting).

Currently, the pres and the conversion are all in 1 rack. I have 2 rack spaces left in that rack. In another transit rack I have the onyx 800 and the HD24. It makes for a very tidy "second" system if needed but if I went with the Fireface, I would ultimately be able to get rid of this second transit rack and eventually get rid of the computer transit case (pelican 1610) and the monitor case (steel briefcase). That's 2 very large cases and 1 small case out of the equation. Not only would this lighten my load, it would free up much needed space in my Honda and it would lighten the load on my back (which, considering the fact that I'm not getting younger every day, might be very positive.)

So....sorry for the long post, but I'm very curious to know what some of you guys think!

Cheers!

Jeremy

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:36 pm

For your info: I had two firefaces. I had trouble with CPU load while trying to use both at once, however alone the unit worked well. The Pre-amps I found lacked a bit of gain. The A/D was pretty good, an certainly the unit was built well. The fireface had a very nice PCB layout, as I recall.

As for a monitor amp, I think it would be very nice. You can set it up with the PC, and it retains your previous set up when you reboot. Very nice feature if you don't want to have the PC On, or running the mixer app. all the time.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:53 pm

My 8-track location rig consists of...

4 ribbons and 6 CCMs.
4 stereo RABBIT mic pres (battery powered)
Modified FF400 (battery powered).
Laptop capable of 8-tracks of 2496. (battery powered)
Micro-Tracker as a 2 track safety recorder.
1 tall stand for ww spot and misc.
All other mics hang or attach to venue supplied support.
Cables, of course.

All fits into two gig bags which I carry in one trip from the car.
Lite weight and complete independence from venue power.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:13 pm

Thanks guys!

So, in your opinion, how useful/user-friendly is the RME mixer.

As much as I like my Lynx stuff, I find the mixer to be clunky and annoying at best - limiting and frustrating at worst.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:19 pm

I have the Lynx L22, and I agree the mixer is funky. Usable but funky. I like the way RME laid out there mixer. It took about 5 minutes to figure it out, after that my only complaint was there was so many I/O options it was hard to display them all at once. But all and all its a pretty good set up.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:27 pm

Having the very same thoughts at present, looking to rid myself of all my rack gear and replacing it with a small battery powered kit.

This all came to a head again last week when I had three nights of a music festival to record in an inner city venue with NO PARKING. I had to get help from my 82 yr old father to come and collect me with the car at the end of each night.

Now I want a very high quality multi track rig that fits in a backpack. Its going to be based around the beautiful new Nagra 6, 6 channel recorder, some small pres, probably from Kostas Metaxas, and maybe a laptop for control and backup.

Looking to dump the Lynx A/D (beautiful device mind you), AMEK and TC preamps and the Genex recorder. I am not getting any younger and the important thing for me now is to actually be able to comfortably get to these venues on public transport, after a long work day, and record well, with minimal setup and hassle. Bring on the battery powered devices.

Zilla, your kit makes me green with envy. Well sorted.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:29 pm

Link555 wrote:

I have the Lynx L22, and I agree the mixer is funky. Usable but funky. I like the way RME laid out there mixer. It took about 5 minutes to figure it out, after that my only complaint was there was so many I/O options it was hard to display them all at once. But all and all its a pretty good set up.

Yep, I find the Lynx mixer to be very ergonomically suspect, its a case of reflecting the hardware layout instead of reflecting how the user will use it. I have complained to Lynx about it, and was given a dismissive explanation that it reflected what the hardware did. Smile

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:03 pm

The RME TotalMix hardware mixer is very comprehensive. The nice thing about TotalMix is that if you laptop craps out, TotalMix keeps going. It runs in the FF device itself. Therefore your safety recorder will not loose its mix feed.

I did notice that when you pull down a fader to -infinity an audible plop sometimes accures. This has not been a practicle problem for me as usually I am dealing with static mixes only.

Both the 400 and 800 have been solid and good sounding. For live location recording they are just fine. For those times that you want to raise the bar, a quality clock (Rosendahl) will take these units to the next level.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:18 pm

Thanks!

What about muting the channel - does it make a similar plop? I'm usually working with static mixes as well, but who knows, sometimes a change occurs...

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:22 pm

Thats interesting I never heard any plops when I pulled the faders down to -infinity on the firefaces I used to own. Although I didn't mess with total mix that much after I got my basic routing set up. I had alot of issues with 2 firefaces being used together however.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:05 pm

All great stuff so far! Thanks guys!

I don't suspect I'll need 2 interfaces - with 16 channels of ADAT input and 10 channels of analog (or 12...I can't exactly tell), I should be covered.

I would love to see this:

Single, self-contained system containing 8 high-quality preamps, built-in A/D conversion (96 kHz at least, but for the marketing hype, 192 wouldn't hurt). A built in 2 channel summing mixer with analog out and headphone out which records directly to hard disc.

Perhaps this could be built into a simple 2RU computer chassis and based on a linux system or something similar.

Personally, I wouldn't require or even want 48V phantom. I'd be very content doing that externally closer to the mics (when necessary). I'm much prefer the cleanliness from not having it in the circuitry. In addition, I'd like to see 70dB of gain.

I wonder if such a device would be buildable by the collective minds on this forum.

I'd gladly pay $5K for this! (And I can probably get the programming guy to do it with promise of payment from unit sales...)

Any interested takers on putting this project together??

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:28 pm

Get this and be done with the mixing and matching!!!!

http://www.zaxcom.com/deva_58.htm

That out to do it!! LOL

I hear it has really good preamps.

Jeremy, what you need is a 'Schleper'..... a audio utility person to help transport, setup, lay cabling, and answer questions from lookie-lou types, as well as security.
I have experience with this type of work...........
Maybe you are getting too big and need to partnership with someone, or hire somebody to help for a couple of bucks... someone trustworthy.
You are going to like the Deva...... it's only about $13,000

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:17 pm

Wow your asking for a cheaper spider:
http://www.cranesong.com/spider.html

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:01 pm

Believe me - I've been looking very seriously at the spider.

I just wish they offered it without the conversion!!! I REALLY want an 8 channel pre with a summing bus and pan controls that operate post direct output and gain.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:59 am

Cucco wrote:

would love to see...Single, self-contained system containing 8 high-quality preamps, built-in A/D conversion (96 kHz at least, but for the marketing hype, 192 wouldn't hurt). A built in 2 channel summing mixer with analog out and headphone out which records directly to hard disc.

..But then you write...

Cucco wrote:

I REALLY want an 8 channel pre with a summing bus and pan controls that operate post direct output and gain.

Which is it?

The first is a pretty tall order. Probably not possible for under $15k.
The second request is significantly more achievable.

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