Female vocal chain

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:22 pm

Hi,

Up until now I've only recorded jazz instrumentals and I don't sing, so your opinion on the vocal chain would be greatly appreciated.

I used a U87 on Vox to a Dav preamp and used the internal processing of the Korg 32xd for mixing and comp-eq-effects. Need some input on the vocal compression eq and effects, please.

NO GREATER LOVE
http://iacmusic.com/artist.aspx?ID=94280

Thanks for the feedback.
-jim

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:30 pm

In order of cost, I suggest using a AKG 414 BULS with a Universal Audio 2-610, and a Sharp SXD-200 DAT as a converter or PT directly to your sequencer.

The expensive version of this would be to use the Neumann M140, which is excellent for fem vocals.

Post compression, try Renaissance after eq, mainly that is an art, I use the Q6. I like outboard reverbs.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:40 pm

In order of cost, I suggest using a AKG 414 BULS with a Universal Audio 2-610, and a Sharp SXD-200 DAT as a converter or PT directly to your sequencer.

The expensive version of this would be to use the Neumann M140, which is excellent for fem vocals.

Post compression, try Renaissance after eq, mainly that is an art, I use the Q6. I like outboard reverbs.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:41 pm

sorry, that was the M-149....

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:44 am

IMHO, I think this is a pretty good recording, especially considering that you're using a Korg to record to. Maybe it's the song, maybe the singer, but there are parts that seem to have too many pitch inflections. It sounds like the vocalist is struggling because of this, and changing the mic/preamp isn't going to help this. I realize that there are different versions of the U87 over the years, some better than others, but still, I'd stick with the U87.
As far as reverb is concerned, you stated that you have (only?) the Korg available for this, correct? What reverbs have you tried so far? How are the "hall" algorithms on the Korg?
Regarding the compression, can you pop for an outboard unit? Most all-in-one boxes tend to have poor digital dynamics (though the Yamahas are an exception to this). Maybe an FMR RNC (because of its' price-to-performance ratio) would be a better bet, inserted to the tracking channel.
This is a pretty good start overall. Keep up the good work.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:46 am

Thanks for the support and suggestions.

I have now a TC M3000 effects/DeEsser/compressor which I can't wait to try out.

Have you used any of these mikes on female vox with great success? My large condenser/ribbon:
U87, AEA R84, m160, m130, 414b, umt70s, m930, 441, 421, RE20, c535, tlm49, and K-2.

Maybe one of these mikes would be a better choice?

-jim

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:06 am

I currently own or have owned a few of those mics. The 441 works on some female voices, as does the M160. I use an RE-20 regularly as my VO voice, I have tried it on a couple of ladies with mixed results. It really depends on the character/style of the vocalist. What are you trying to achieve here? More "breathiness"? I'd think that the U87 would deliver that. More "warmth"? Maybe the M160 or the AEA. The C535 is just harsh.
Might try the UMT70, haven't tried one out, many here like it. By all means, stick with the DAV pre. And, I haven't used the M3000, but I used to have a TC CL-2 (it was a 2-channel digital compressor, can't recall the model#). It was a dog, I hated it. Maybe they've improved their algorithms. Maybe I just like analog compressors more...

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:02 am

Would you happen to have a sample of the voice using those mikes you mention?

I am not always at liberty to just try mikes on vocals as a test.

thanks
-jim

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:03 pm

I can't post samples from this site and that wouldn't help. Choosing a mic for a given vocalist is a trial-and-error thing, with the singer, the mic, the room, and a bunch of other factors playing into the situation. You still haven't answered the original question: What do you want to hear from this singer that you aren't currently hearing? To me, there are bigger issues than the quality of the recording...

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:23 pm

Starting with the vox, I have recommended she take the recording to a vocal coach.

1st the phrasing and pitch need to be more in the pocket.
I am not big on pitch correction devices.

I need to know what engineers do to achieve the contemporary christian female voice. I am a jazz guitarist by trade so I am lost on the vocal experience.

Save The Best For Last - Vanessa Williams, is what comes to mind. That would be a nice texture and mix for this tune posted.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Maybe look into buying 3D audios Vocal Mic Shoot out, if your looking for a more "objective" vocal mic comparsion.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/mics.html

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:32 pm

Thanks link555, I originally posted this thread at 3db but received no feedback.

I really need to examine every aspect of my studio down to the monitors and room treatment.

It takes time but I am really enjoying the process and all the help.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:30 pm

You will find its mostly subjective in the end. I bought the Mic shoot out disc, and it helped me select which mics I wanted to try out. Best thing to do it get to know a gear salesperson, and borrow or rent to determine what work for your ears, your room and your music.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:13 am

I think you're recording was first-rate! Beautiful and full-bodied for playing with toys and one good microphone.

Your vocalist has a sweet light soprano sound. Her problems with pitch can be directly associated with her lack of proper breathing. It wasn't bad. My only observation, Nowhere on either of her two songs did she ever take a proper breath. It gives her that nice vulnerable sexy sound but without proper air, there cannot be proper support and with that comes that inability to nail the pitch properly. This is the greatest fault with most young singers. And being anorexic just creates further problems. You need musculature to sing well.. But like the other folks, I'd say keeper on the U87. As anything with a smaller and thinner diaphragm will only help to accentuate her already over sibelant "esses". Sure you can add some de-essing on her and you should, even with the U87. And although I am a huge proponent of ribbon microphone technologies, I don't think that's the mike for her. She is certainly not overly breathy, powerful or brash and so I feel she is well suited to the 6 micron thick, 1 inch diaphragm of the U87, which did add a little heft to her flyweight sound. And with that, I feel the degree of intimacy in sound truly complements her voice. A beautiful selection and combination on your part.

What her track would benefit from is a good compressor/limiter with some classic character. And not that imitation version you've done so much with already. You certainly squeezed all you could out of that. But it certainly doesn't give you that warm sloppy sound of an optical LA 3, which I think would do her well? You might also find that some other boutique quality preamp on her voice may be all that's necessary? Something that would fill out her all too skinny body. In a manner of speaking.

Either way, I think you have superb engineering chops. Although I would like to hear a little more smack and balls from the drum kit.

All right so I'm being too critical. Crucify me. I'm Jewish.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:53 pm

Man Ms. Remy, I don't deserve all that, thank you for your many kind words-!!

Now to show the wife your post, grab the check book and off I go to the music store for a couple new toys Smile

I gave Ashley a copy of the recording and ask her to get in touch with her old vocal coach. Thanks for the vox breathing lesson. Not being a vocalist I just couldn't put my finger on where all the problems exist.

I do have a Demeter, True, API, Great River, Grace and Dav preamps. Have you used any of these pre's on vox with great success?

Thanks again,

-jim

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