Budget studio in 2-car garage (was: Shifting priorities...)

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:14 pm

Hey folks,

I've been doing my homework searching and reading this forum, Rod's book, other books, and talking with a friend at Auralex. I've got a few remaining questions I've been unable to settle, and a priority shift is forcing some cost cuts on my build, so I could use a little advice (or a lot).

So I'm building a small electronic music mix studio - no microphones - inside about two thirds of a 2-car garage. The garage itself is on its own cement slab, and is a wood-frame construction (2x4 frame with 16" studs, ceiling frames are 24" on center). The exterior side of the stud wall is stucco over chicken wire and paper. There's no plywood, no vapor barrier. A few pictures (click for bigger versions):
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2450284982_e8d56c0239_m.jpg" />...<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/2449458093_d4a6ce1ce6_m.jpg"/>...<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2103/2450282598_5842e34654_m.jpg"/>

The dimensions of the interior room I'm building are about 12' x 18', and the ceiling slopes up from 8' on the short sides to 12' in the center of the long walls. Here's the floor plan (click for bigger):
<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2450147914_80f819bf9e_m.jpg" />

My initial build plan for the walls and sloped ceiling, which again was built mostly on methods and products, is: Mineral Fiber insulation, resilient channel on the studs, 5/8" rock, then Sheetblok MLV, then 1/2" rock to finish. I don't plan to treat the floor, just to add a pad and carpet.

Unfortunately I can't afford the MLV or the shipping costs for the MLV anymore, so it has to go.

Lucky for me, the building is about 20' from the nearest neighbor so I don't think I need to achieve perfection with the isolation, but I need to not disturb my young family or neighbors - that's my only goal with the isolation.

So here are my questions:
1. Should I replace the sheetblok MLV with Green Glue, something else, or just use two layers of 5/8" rock with no sandwiched layer?

2. My town gets hot, 105 degrees every summer, and freezing cold in the winter. Is mineral fiber going to be up to the task of insulating my building well enough? Should I switch to fiberglass instead?

3. My exterior walls are stucco with no vapor barrier. Do I need to add a vapor barrier?

4. How do I attach insulation in between my studs since the exterior wall is just stucco?

5. Is Auralex mineral fiber better or easier to work with than OC 703? Still looking to control costs and building complexity, here.

Thanks for any help! I am starting construction in four weeks, and didn't expect to have to re-think it, but I'm adding to the family and that calls for some sacrifices without hesitation.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:44 pm

1. I'd go for MDF and 2 layers of 5/8" gypsum with Green Glue between the layers of gypsum. You'll get better mass at less cost.

2. Mineral wool is just as efficient as pink fluffy, AFAIK... and cheaper in many parts of the country.

3. You DO need a vapor barrier.

4. I would slip it between the studs, and then tack up banding material to hold the insulation in the bays.

5. I can't comment on the Auralex, but if the absorbtion numbers are about the same (which I suspect they're close), then go for the cheaper cost item.

To save some more funds, I would leave the floor untreated and put in a soft ceiling... easier to keep clean and more natural sounding.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:17 pm

Thanks for the advice, Max. A couple of follow-ups:

MadMax wrote:

1. I'd go for MDF and 2 layers of 5/8" gypsum with Green Glue between the layers of gypsum. You'll get better mass at less cost.

Are you suggesting MDF instead of or in addition to the Resilient Channel? I see an advantage to MDF in that I could actually hang things on the wall, but other than that I'm a little concerned about putting that much weight (MDF + 2x5/8" gypsum) on the frame.

Quote:

To save some more funds, I would leave the floor untreated and put in a soft ceiling... easier to keep clean and more natural sounding.

This is an excellent piece of advice, and an idea I had not even considered. Would you think that a soft ceiling parallel to the floor at 8' height is going to function as well as the cathedral / A-frame ceiling going up to 12', or should I put in the extra work to preserve that room volume?

Thx!!

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:37 am

Hello, El Pedro - I am in your area ! (Berkeley, California). Our peak temperatures are not quite as extreme, but your garage look a lot like mine, albeit with a better reinforced roof. And that leads to my question: You don't talk about structural considerations when you suspend your ceiling. I assume you are suspending it. Or are you planning an independently framed ceiling, with the weight carried by the interior walls?

My garage will yield up a larger space (16x20, with an 8 foot ceiling), so I have a larger ceiling to hang. But I thought I'd ask if you've consulted a structural engineer about your ceiling. This is my current and primary concern.

Thanks -

Clark Shocked

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:53 am

quiet wrote:

Hello, El Pedro - I am in your area ! (Berkeley, California). Our peak temperatures are not quite as extreme, but your garage look a lot like mine, albeit with a better reinforced roof. And that leads to my question: You don't talk about structural considerations when you suspend your ceiling. I assume you are suspending it. Or are you planning an independently framed ceiling, with the weight carried by the interior walls?

Hey Clark - I actually lived in North Oakland for a few years, miss that area quite a bit. In fact I had a 20x20 backyard garage studio there, too, which the landlord had already made quite sound proof.

Quote:

My garage will yield up a larger space (16x20, with an 8 foot ceiling), so I have a larger ceiling to hang. But I thought I'd ask if you've consulted a structural engineer about your ceiling. This is my current and primary concern.

Inside my garage, maybe you can tell from the pictures above, there are ceiling trusses every 24" from which I'll be suspending a ceiling. While I have not consulted a structural engineer, I do trust the trusses to a certain extent. I'm also doing some of this build with a good friend who is a house builder who seems to have a certain amount of confidence that the 2 layers of sheetrock we'll hang won't be too much for the 12' span and he has a backup plan to install a beam across the trusses in case we need it.

With the 16' span you're talking about, if you don't have as many trusses as I do (not just rafters, but braced trusses), you are probably going to want to talk to a structural engineer. And if that ain't all, you've got one better reason than I do to think this completely through: the Hayward Fault. Yessir, I'm pretty happy to finally get away from earthquake country after living there for 20+ years.

Best of luck - keep in touch with me and let me know how it progresses, I'd love to come check out your setup next time I'm in the East Bay.

Cheers,
el Pedro

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:52 am

I'll just mention it in case anyone's looking for as-it-happens stories: I'm buliding this studio right now, and I'm blogging about each day's progress. If you're curious what happens when you've got a 50 year old garage and a miniscule budget, here are the reports:

http://peterandrobyn.com/wordpress/?cat=10

Pictures and Videos to follow when I have time to load them.

I want to give many thanks to the great contributors on this forum who have been so helpful with advice given on my thread and in the archives!

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:14 pm

Thanks for your hello back !

I can't figure out how to post drawings to this site. since you've obviously figured this out, I thoght I'd ask.

Sorry for the trouble.

My plans proceed: And your garage (soon to be studio) looks great !

Clark (in Berkeley)

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