Mods for Soundcraft Ghost

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2001 7:30 am

Hi gang,We recently replaced an old Mackie 8-buss with a Soundcraft Ghost in our little MIDI room. While the Ghost sounds noticeably better to everyone and feels much more like a 'real' console, there has been a super-annoying HUM on the 2-mix buss that we cannot get rid of. Mind you, this is after driving a grounding rod outside, bringing in an Equitech balanced power unit, and converting the entire room's wiring to a centralized patchbay with a star-grounding scheme.My local mad-scientist tech guy has made a couple of suggestions. One, he wants to take a stab at re-capping the master section of the console, substantially upping all the cap values... which he claims will not only help the console sound better, but will improve hum rejection across the board. Two, he wants to bring in a souped-up power supply to replace the existing PSU, cuz those bigger caps are gonna ask for more juice. Plus, the original PSU is designed to run on U.K. power, i.e. 50Hz, and my tech theorizes that its hum rejection at the USA standard 60Hz may not be what it should. On top of which, giving *any* console a stiffer current source can only help... right?We were briefly considering re-chipping this thing as well, but all the IC's are soldered right to the PCB. Bummer.Anyway, point being: has anyone out there performed any mods along these lines to a Ghost? Any thoughts, cautions, advice??? Love to hear from ya.TIA,-e

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2001 10:10 am

We have the Ghost 32 LE. We installed Drax automation by Optifile who BTW is now out of business.It has always been a very quite board. We asked aroung about mods and the feed back we got was leave it like it is. All ours is used for is monitoring during tracking (we use all outboard pre's and some EQ) and mixdown. One thing that I do at mixdown is use send/out in the mix insert to go to 2 trk, by-passing the master fader which has a little noise. The other thing and I feel stupid telling it was we had all the effect returns comming back in thru the tape returns in 25-32 for eq, pan, auto. and they were very noisy. After a while it was like "DUH!!" bring them back thru line in, no more noise! <img src="graemlins/retard.gif" border="0" alt="[retard]" /> I would however like to mod the mix buss if possible, I think it would help but I don't know if it's practicle. If you find out any thing let me know. Soundcraft service is in Nashville and we have a tech manual with all the drawings if you need any.Good luck and keep me informed!

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2001 10:58 am

If you would like to add a producers talk back w/remote, wired or wireless with monitor dim to your board check this out:
http://www.qtiav.com/

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:59 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>The other thing and I feel stupid telling it was we had all the effect returns comming back in thru the tape returns in 25-32 for eq, pan, auto. and they were very noisy. After a while it was like "DUH!!" bring them back thru line in, no more noise! <hr></blockquote>Hey David-- are you saying that the signal path via line input is substantially quieter than the tape returns?? Or am I missing something?Hope it ain't so, cuz I am pretty much maxed out on inputs with my 32-frame Ghost, and I NEED all those tape returns.... but if the tape path is somehow inferior to the channel path, I may hafta rethink my strategy. I haven't noticed a big difference, myself (...yet...).BTW, I noticed you had the Ghost LE version, without the integral mute automation. Any idea whether the LE is quieter than the full-bore MIDI/auto version of this board (which I have)? I am getting some weird EFI/RFI-sounding hash on this board, which seems contrary to all the comments from other users (including you) about how quiet this console is. Just wondering if the LE vs. regular version might have something to do with it... ???

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:25 pm

E,Sorry for the confusion. No, the tape returns are not noisy when patched to the balanced tape outputs or with balanced outboard inserted in between (you do have ALL your I/O on balanced patchbays, don't you Wink

) so you are fine using them as is.Our problem was we were returning effects processors (-10db) into the tape returns (+4db) and the gain structures were introducing noise.We have never had any problem with RFI. You would think SoundCraft would shield the mute/transport computer in your board sufficiently as not to be a problem, but who knows...Start from ground zero and work your way up. Disconnect all the I/O except the monitors and turn the CR level up and listen. If it's clean, start adding I/O to see if it is a particular piece of gear, or if just starts accumulating as you add I/O (which would indicate a possible grounding problem).Best of luck to you. Keep the faith.

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2001 11:10 am

Start from ground zero and work your way up. Disconnect all the I/O except the monitors and turn the CR level up and listen. If it's clean, start adding I/O to see if it is a particular piece of gear, or if just starts accumulating as you add I/O (which would indicate a possible grounding problem).You may want to look at the power supply. I hear the Ghost has an upgraded PS from the earlier models. I'm sure someone with a clue will be along any minute.Steve <img src="graemlins/retard.gif" border="0" alt="[retard]" />

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2001 3:45 pm

I have heard it is possible to 'supercharge' the power suplies on these desks, something about the voltage on the 'rails' Anyhow, WAY above MY head...I suggest a search on rec.audio.pro newsgroup and a candid 'come on man, spill the beans' call to the UK engineering dept of Soundcraft UK, they are nice guys (especialy for English techs!) - grill them on the subject, well worth the 10 cents a minuit call! IMHO.Good luck,Jules

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:33 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Start from ground zero and work your way up. Disconnect all the I/O except the monitors and turn the CR level up and listen. If it's clean, start adding I/O to see if it is a particular piece of gear, or if just starts accumulating as you add I/O (which would indicate a possible grounding problem). <hr></blockquote>Yup. Wanna hear the freaky part? This thing hums like a contented grandma when there is NOTHING ELSE connected. With all cables pulled, all inputs muted, nothing else in the room powered up, listening thru a pair of headphones plugged directly into the console... there is a friggin' 60Hz monstrosity coming down the 2-mix. Not screamin' loud, but definitely unacceptable.And the plot thickens. This console is replacing a Mackie 8-buss that was DEAD QUIET in the identical setup. I thought for sure I had some kind of crazy grounding problem until I brought the Mackie back into the room and set it up side by side with the Ghost to see what was what. Nothing plugged in, all inputs muted... sure enough: Mackie = dead silent, Ghost = HUMMMMM.During these last few weeks we have been pullin' our hair out. Running isolated grounds, driving a big-ass copper ground spike, buying Equitech 'balanced power' units, meticulously star-grounding the patchbays... NOTHING has made a difference. Hence the move to hotrod the hell out of the console PSU, and potentially do some internal recapping.The more research I do on this, however, the less confident I am that the Ghost is worth spending this kind of time, effort and money on. While it's definitely a significant step up over the Mackie, the Ghost is still a price-point console. Had a long chat with the guys over at Audio Upgrades the other day, and they basically told me the Ghost wasn't worth working on from their standpoint. What to do, what to do. I have half a mind to just buy something else, but 1) I cannot fit a large-frame analog console into this space (it's a tiny little MIDI room for goshsakes) and 2) seems like I gotta spend a LOT more money to get anything that is a major step up over the Ghost, sonically speaking.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:40 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I have heard it is possible to 'supercharge' the power suplies on these desks, something about the voltage on the 'rails' <hr></blockquote>Yeah, my tech geek wants to build a new PSU from the ground up, and design it to drive a couple volts hotter on the audio rails. Plus he wants to triple the current capacity on it. Yummy. Can only help, right?Believe me, I have searched high and low for other info. Google Search has turned up surprisingly little. If anyone else on rec.audio.pro has had success with Ghost mods like these, they are stonily silent on the subject.I spoze calling Soundcraft UK would be the next step. Looks like I'll be setting my alarm for a few hours earlier tomorrow morning. Smile

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:54 am

Um..just in case. A freind of mine bought a used Soundcraft Spirit 32x8 Auto. When he first pugged it in he was getting a pretty bad hum. I came over and asked him if it was set for 110/60 Hz. Well, the psu was set for 50Hz! Amazing the thing worked at all! Double check the switch settings for power input. They weren't totally obvious in this unit.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:09 am

For what it is worth...Have you checked the headphone jack??I was using a ghost and the headphone jack nut was loose causing problems...then it fell through...because someone did not full tighten it Smile

and then it caused more problems...Hope you get the hum fixed...

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:23 am

My ghost will make occasional hash noise. AND my front mount headphone jack also fell thru!!!
It was WAY noisier before they sent us the new style power supplies too. Also the mix b buss is just noisy! nothing plugged in and it will hiss. But aside from that, laugh all you want but this board has great mic pre's and super kickass EQ that I would gladly have a rack of.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 12:57 pm

Oh God!! What a laugh I had when you said your headphone jack fell through too!!!Sorry...but laughs are rare sometimes...but that was a good one...They do fall through!!

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 6:05 pm

Be careful "super-charging" the rails. The Ghost uses NE5532's and TL072's throughout. While the NE5532's will handle +/- 20VDC, the TL072's are only rated +/- 18 VDC max. At the +/- 17VDC that the board is configured for you are already just within the tolerance of the parts. Making the supply stiffer, reducing ripple, and increasing the current capacity is another matter and I would expect diminishing returns after a point. As Fletcher says, YMMV...

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:02 pm

That was the mod I heard about. Running the console from batteries. Way less ground noise supposedly, and no ripple. How would you set that up ? and would there really be less chance of grounding problems ?

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