Working for free

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:19 pm

Ok,
1- Does anyone else work for free and how much?
2- Is helping people out at no cost a bad thing?
3- Who deserves free work and who doesn't?
4- To what extent is this new wave of low cost (no cost) audio engineers hurting larger, more established studios?

I often work for free to attain experiece. Am I killing our chances of getting smaller gigs that might have otherwise paid?

Give me your thoughts!
Regards,
mIchAEl

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:54 pm

mIchAEl,

I think the question runs deeper than just the industry.

Helping someone "for free" has it's own rewards - thus you gain something in return...... so was it really free?

My "gut" often tells me to jump in and help... whether it's someone on the side of the road (am i doing a dis-service to roadside service centers if i help an elderly lady change her tire?) or every now and again helping someone with their studio.

A little while ago i spent an evening helping someone work out studio details..... and at the end of the evening the gentleman handed me a check, which i then tore it up and handed it back to him.

Something in side just said to do it........ so i did.

The look on his face was worth more to me than what was in the check........ and i promise you that the word of mouth that this will generate is a lot more advertising than i could have bought with the money.

So i guess my very longwinded point is that this is a personal thing - if it feels right do it - and it will earn you rewards down the road....

As far as the question of "who deserves it" - you know in your heart of hearts - just follow that and you can't go wrong.

Happy Hunting

Rod

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:36 pm

Hey Michael,

I would somewhat agree with Rod here. But becareful... once the word gets out that you are Mr. Free then everyone wants or expects the same deal.

At best I would do a considerably reduced rate if anything at all. Unless of course you know that the product may lead to way bigger and better things. If thats the case then make an agreement as to future compensation regarding the work that you would possibly do.

In the long run it is truly a gut feeling about when to give something away. I personally have been burned on several occasions. For example once you get into a project that you think may take say 4-5 hours per day for 2 days turns out into a super session that winds up depleting your resources etc.

Thats my personal opinion.

Best wishes,

JD( o}===;;;

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:55 pm

Michael, I got started because I wanted to record my own music, then people asked me to record their music, that led to more of a business approach.

I learned most of what I do on my own, that turned out to be worth a lot in the long run. I had to work 2 jobs for a long time, then I finally surrendered and worked my way up from humble beginnings. Now I do exactly what I wanted to do, only this time I make a living. I am not the business type, if you want that, and are unsure how to handle it, have someone manage you. It can be a friend, someone with some experience in marketing your ability, setting your gigs, and giving a professional touch.

Take it as it comes, if you turn hard-core business, you will find yourself doing more business than creating. If you keep up what you are doing, you will gain experience and that will be where the value of your ability becomes an economic advantage. But, don't let someone take advantage of you, I am sure you can tell the difference. You know who really needs help, v.s. someone trying to ply for free info, and assistance, only to make themselves some extra money on your time.

Just stick to it and down the road somewhere you will find yourself right where you want to be. Lately, there has been every sector of production coming in looking for work. With people like you, a lighting specialist/set builders, Producer directors, camera operators, screenplay writers, even actors. We could darn near start our own Hollywood here on the south east coast.

Keep your creative juices flowing, open yourself up to other related work, and build value. Surround yourself with people who are involved in your industry, if you can deliver what they need, you don't have to under-cut anyone, just throw in a little something extra.
I hope some of this is helpful. Me? I just want to create and produce.

--Rick

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:15 pm

Michael,

Both JD and Rick said a mouthfull.......... very wise people i have associated myself with......

Rod

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:57 am

i always try to give something back. i'm always on the prowl for a band that needs a hand up and looking to help. of course i don't turn down paying work at the same time i try to schedule accordingly but i don't feel there is anything wrong with working for free as long as it's for the right reasons.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:46 pm

Howdy mIchAEl,

I'm just starting to get into the world of audio post production. The only way to build a reel and build a rep is to work at the "no/lo/deferred" level. I have been answering every ad I can find, and have had a few small jobs. Because I have good ears and lots of studio experience as a music engineer they have come off very well. Because of that I now have a meeting later this week for a short feature length film that is scheduled for the Sundance film festival. I don't know how it will turn out, but my couple of freebees got me the interview and a few clips to show. It will be especially helpful when I can show how I took really lousy sound and made it passable on one short and really punched up another with some ambience and FX and sliced and diced the music effectively (much to the dismay of the composer).

All of the projects got me a screen credit and a reputation for doing good work. People will pay for good work. It's just like when I began my performing career; you start playing for free, then for the door, then for the door plus some cash, and suddenly some well paying band wants you to play for them. Then someone else sees you and you start doing sessions during the day as well as gigs at night. I ended up making great money, playing some great venues, and meeting some great people & players.

Pick and choose carefuly. If you stay focused you will get where you want to be. I may never win an Oscar or a Grammy, but I know that I will get where I want to go, making a living at something I enjoy

Peace,

Uncle Bob

:p:

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