Discussion in 'Music Business Forum' started by Frankie_G, Aug 17, 2004.
I would recomend a 4 year program so you can get a degree. there is nothing wrong with full sail but i don't believe it is a bachelor degree. If you go to a school for four years you will receive a Bachelors which can go a long way if you decide to get out of business. As far as making money out of college, don't even think about it. I was lucky, I interned during school and got a paid job at a studio with 6 months left of college. However, eventhough it is paid I still have to side job like crazy to make any money. As far as other schools, check out columbia college chicago. That is where I went and they have a great program, good teachers and you still get a 4 year degree. Chicago is also a very good town as far as studios go.
Isn't the market over-saturated enough?
But I see your point. The thing is, the market may be crowded - but not with truly excellent engineers. Even after an education such as Full Sail, many people just don't have the ears, judgement, personality, or talent to be able to be successful.
You then move up as an assistant and it's all luck and ears from there.
This is just from folks I know that have done the same thing. Do you really need the FullSail education? Mmmm. not sure pretty pricey and it is NOT accredited like a normal college, if you ever want to leave the music industry for a corporate job the degree won't fly.
Sorry to burst the ol' bubble there friend but it IS an accredited school just like a college. and i don't think most kids that go to full sail want to be apart of the corporate world anyway, that's why they go to full sail.
not to mention the hands on learning which is about the ONLY way to actually learn all that stuff.
I think you agree that the recording industry is not easy to break into and people do have to make a living to survive. If for whatever reason you don't make it, you should leave yourself an out. Especially when you have 20k+ in loans to pay off.
I know there are some Full Sail grads on this board that are glad they went, but this is an outsider's opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
As for what you *should* do? Well, I'd skip the whole school thing, get REALLY familiar with PT and all the gear that you can, record some local bands to get your feet wet, then start begging and pleading to make the best cup of coffee your local studio owners have ever had. And by the way, you're a hell of a floor-sweeper.
In contrast, I have heard of several guys who went there for live audio training, and landed killer jobs with Claire Bros. and the like. One guy said there's easily 10-15 times more students in recording than in live sound. But that may be a fish story, I don't know.
Anyway, there are tons of great books, boards like this, and just plain old trial and error to get you started. Once you know your stuff pretty well, and can work fast, just show off your drive and determination, don't take no for an answer, and you'll succeed.
Most high school students who are about to graduate will not have any idea whatsoever as to how to record a single note on a high end setup. The hands-on experience and the foundation of sound theory and the application of basic recording techniques that they can learn at a recording school will definitely help most any kid who is determined to be an audio engineer.
While it is not absolutely necessary that they attend a school, it will sure help them learn all the basics that they will need in their chosen career. There is absolutely nothing "weird" about it. That's like saying to a learning chef "Hey - it's kinda weird that you're going to cullinary classes. You could still cook on your own even without that crap." Or to a stuntman "Man, you don't need any training - just get out there and act like it hurts when you get blown up."
How anyone can discount the value of an education in your chosen profession is beyond me.
the course is very cheap and the best thing an actual commercial working studio is your school and you get to choose it yourself...one on one training.... you get to work on commercial projects as well while training...and the people the music producers the singers other musicians they all see you working and who knows one of them also might keep you as his personal engineer and msot of the students gets the job in the same studio they get trained...at the end you get a diploma as well as an Experience certificate which is the most important thing.... not only this they will help you in job placement for years...hope u like that link.... i would surely do that course but its only available for USA and Canada...not for international students... and its very affordable i guess...
http://www.audiomasterclass.com/.... its an online course for Recording Techniques and Music Technology.... two components...at the end of hte course you will have to give examination and if u pass you will recieve a diploma.... Accredited by City & Guilds of London Institute of sound engineering...
its a london 1820 part3 qualification, officially recognized and accredited UK qualification.
1820 Part 3 is a high-level qualification equivalent in standard to HNC or the first year of a degree course... which makes you a pro recording engineer as well music technology knowledge upto to pro level... hope u find the link usefull
To clarify: Discount education? Not in the least. Discount formal education? You betcha.
If you're a chef, a teaspoon of salt is a teaspoon of salt for all eternity. If you're a doctor, the human body doesn't get updated over time. If you're a geologist, rocks is rocks. But if you're in the recording industry, technology is constantly in flux, and the chances that what you learned in school will be out of date by the time you get out are much higher.
Still, don't ignore education. Books are education. This site is education. Experience is incredible education.
The human body may not ever change, but the world of medicine and medical technology changes daily, even more so than recording technology. That is why people who have been doctors for years are often constantly attending special continuing educational seminars and schools. Their education never stops.
The same thing applies to geology. The definition, techniques, and education of a geologist today is far different from a geologist 10 years ago.
Of course, the same thing applies to recording technology. Just as the human body stays the same, so do the basic principles of sound and music theory (with few exceptions). We will all have to continue our education to keep abreast of the constant changes in technology.
But that in itself is actually a very good reason for a young aspiring engineer to attend a school like Full Sail. Do you know that they allow graduates of their recording arts program to audit any courses in the program for free - for life? That's right. If you graduate from their school, and 10 years down the road, you need to update your skills in using new technology, you can go through any of the courses they offer for FREE. That way you always keep up with the changing technology.
Just as there is no way that I would discount the value of books and experience (which happen to be the core of my education), it is simply illogical for you to discount a "formal" education, especially for the reasons you have given.
BUT! that's just me. I never read the manual until I've broken it twice. I take things apart without having the slightest idea how to put them back together. I get myself lost on purpose and make a game out of finding the highway again. Because of that mindset, I make no bones about my college education being completely useless, and I happily admit that I carry a grudge the size of Kansas on my shoulder about it. But even if I'm full of crap - and I often am - we both agree that you don't need a degree to make records. I'm so much of a buck-the-system guy that I want to dive in a make mistakes. Others - my wife included - don't see it that way. Godspeed to all involved.
PS: Whenever I talk about this, I think about the days when being a studio engineer meant you actually had an engineering degree. Not to be an elitist (I don't have an engineering degree, either), but my, how times have changed.
I don't think you or I have said anything out of line to each other - just debating the pros and cons of a certain situation. That's one of the best things about forums like this.
Full Sail comments
I just have some insights for the comments you guys have on full sail....I am enrolling sometime in 2005 still preparing and planning on the move down there....But anyway
I just wanted to say Full Sail is an internationally known school. I have been doing research on schools that have recording classes and Full Sail tops everyone of them by leaps and bounds.....I do however agree with the comment about you don't need full sail to get into the recording business and either way your gonna end up in the school of hard knocks...I personally have had a taste of the music business as a songwriter and as a Scouting agent and it is harsh but thats the business........However.....I also personally think that going to full sail will give you a massive jump start. here is why. First you will get to work with people going into the same business as you....So you will be instantly be Networking with TO BE producers/Engineers. so that means your gonna start getting connections...and having been in the biz myself connections can go a long way if you use them right......Secondly i do also agree with the comment on searching for a music gig that Certificate aint gonna mean shit. Studio's and labels don't care what you have been educated on. They care on what you sound like and what you can do with your mind and ears.....BUT by going to full sail you will be expanding your Mind and ideas by learning new theories and expanding your knowledge in recording and Engineering....Full Sail will do nothing for you if you don't want to do anything with it....Full sail is not for the degree its for the experience and newly found knowledge.......You have to want to succeed in your Feild of the entertainment business.......You can't expect to come out of full Sail getting a 1 million doller paying gig.....it aint gonna happen...You have to know how to market yourself and your ideas to the public.......
I also think those people dissing full sail because they have gotten nothing out of if are retarded you can't blame full sail on your own lack of ambitousness and knowledge of how to be successfull in the Entertainment business......The world is not out to get you.......Your out to get the world..........You will be the cause of your own success or failure not your neighbor......
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