Rane preamp

Discussion in 'DIY Pro Audio Forum' started by chrissugar, Jul 4, 2003.

  1. chrissugar

    chrissugar Guest

    A couple of month ago I read on forums about this preamp, the Rane MS 1b. Roger Nicols and other engineers made a mic pre shootout and they included this 200$ pre against very expensive, high end preamps. The consensus was that the Rane was very close to those expensive ones.Today I was at Rogers forum and he confirmed that he used the MS-1 for Steely Dan's live recording.
    I downloaded from the Rane page the manual and schem.
    www.rane.com/ms1b.html
    It is based on INA 163. I would like to build some channels for general purpose, so the question is anyone has idea where can I find in Europe a dealer for this chip. I could not find it at RS and Farnell.

    chrissugar
  2. axis.dk

    axis.dk Guest

    I´d be very interested in knowning what Roger, and "friends" call..."very expensive, high end preamps."...???

    Kind regards

    Peter
  3. chrissugar

    chrissugar Guest

    Rogers words:
    "I have a big box full of Rane mic preamps. I use them all the time, but I have to disguise them so nobody knows.
    Eric Schilling, Tom Morris and I did a mic pre shootout last month, and just for fun, I included the Rane MS-1 against all of the Avalons, GML, and other preamps up to $5000.
    The Rane held its own and was never rated lower than second place in all categories; Snare, Sax, Guitar, and Vocal. Pretty impressive for under $200."

    chrissugar
  4. cuelist

    cuelist Guest

    Well kudos to Roger for having the guts to make such a controversial statement!!


    Mats
  5. gyraf

    gyraf Guest

    ...It looks like a good, simple and healthy design. Even the phantom psu is kept simple. May be a good idea for a DIY project for those that want a "modern" preamp..?

    Jakob E.
  6. chrissugar

    chrissugar Guest

    Maybe I'm wrong but I remember somewhere I read that Gracedesign preamps are based on INA series, so I think it can't be bad.
    Also I think this pre has maybe the best quality/price performance, so it can become a good DIY project.

    chrissugar
  7. robflinn

    robflinn Guest

    If you get your magnifying glass out & study the circuit diagram you will notice some writing in a box next to the Rane logo.

    In this box it states that the INA163 was used as a replacement for our old friend the SSM2017 in this particular circuit revision.

    So the big question is which version is Roger Nicols using ?
  8. peterc

    peterc Guest

    There is a servo coupled mic pre in the INA163 application note that could make an interesting DIY project for those that can get hold of the chip. Beware it is only surface mount tho'

    http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=INA163

    Peter
  9. Mark Burnley

    Mark Burnley Guest

    Someone else is interested in this 'lil box..

    Thomas J Schum

    This is the interesting article:

    MS1b Technical Review PDF

    ...including history/revisions of the circuit.

    Mark

    --------------------------
    "Oscillators don't, amplifiers do....."
    Anon.
  10. Shalimar

    Shalimar Guest

    It has been discussed on r.a.p. The Rane MS1B circuit rolls of the bottom end at higher gains due to the too small cap in series with the gain pot.

    You can read about it here;

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3E1DD8DE.2000608%40minn.net&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dda%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dsatz%2Brane%2B%2Bgroup%253Arec.audio.pro%26meta%3Dgroup%253Drec.audio.pro

    I wouldn't take Roger Nichols recommendation too seriously. When he reviewed the shitty Yamaha 02R (I used to own this piece of vommit some years ago. Whatta nightmare!) he thought it sounded a LOT better than a Neve VR.. same thing with ADATs, PT and whatever digi gizmo he gets his hands on. He doens't have much credibilty in my book. Oh yeah, Steely Dan sucks too..

    YMMV fer sure.

    Instead of clonning the Rane, why not make new original (well as original as it gets when you use an off the shelf chip) design?
  11. NewYorkDave

    NewYorkDave Guest

    Amen
  12. Shalimar

    Shalimar Guest

    Mike Rivers (ex-Mackie employee, with a very good rep!) sayz the same shit is happening in the Mackie pres (probably also Behringer then). WTF!!!!

    Freq response oughtta be spec'ed at different gains then.

    The blurb;

    http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=znr1057439452k%40trad&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Dda%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26group%3Drec.audio.pro%26start%3D25

    Mike is right that in practice it may now mean much, but I don't wan't Mackie to make the descision for me. Hell, I wouldn't wanna use their two dollar pres anyway.

    But I do know of someone who does stereo recording with +50dB gain with a Whackie VLZ1202. Allways thought it sounded thin... gee.
  13. gyraf

    gyraf Guest

    ..In the Rane, you could just substitute C36 (470u/16V) for a 1000u or 2200u, and all would be fine..

    Jakob E.
  14. Shalimar

    Shalimar Guest

    Yes, you could. But it doens't exactly inspire confidence in the product does it?
  15. axis.dk

    axis.dk Guest

    I have the same "feeling" about Mr. Nichols.

    Now I have never heard the pre in discussion, but it has to be damm good to beat the GML imho..as always ymmv..!!!

    kind regards

    Peter
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