Thread: Piano Recording

Tom, are you saying you use three fig 8's on a decca tree? Do they all face 0 degrees forward incidence?

Yes that is correct, they all face forward with the logo pointing to the piano.

Well, once I tried it i switched to a pair of omnis on piano. Unless you have been down that route already, then try it, I tend to think of that as the standard solution for piano.

It takes small diameter good quality "true" omnis though, generally not the switchable large diameter mics to get the full effect. Say, DPA 4003, Schoeps CMC6+MK2H, Sennheiser MKH20 to name a few (taste does vary).

Gunnar

Really depends on the instrument and the room, but my favorite techniques...

First is spaced omnis. 2 omnis (usually B&K 4006) about 8 feet high and about 4-6 feet out. Usually spaced about 3-4 feet.

Second is a blumlein pair. I either use my AKG 426 or a Royer SF-24 when doing this. I usually start about 6 feet high and 4 feet out for this.

Last is mid-side... Probably my favorite mic for this is an AKG C-34. I start with a cardiod in the center, but some rooms sound good with a slightly wider pattern in the center. This will usually be positioned relatively low (perhaps 5 feet high) and close (about 4 feet)...

All will give completely different sounds and it really depends on what you like and are looking for...

-Ben

While, I have never tried this technique it seems an "interesting choice" to me, for the following reasons.

1. Normally spaced techniques use omnis to exploit the low frequency extension, and this is nice on a piano. There are not too many reasons for using spaced techniques with directional mics as the compromise in LF is normally traded against the advantages of image stability by using directional mics coindidentally arranged.

2. Decca tree also usually used for large sound sources, ie much larger than a piano, ie orchestra or choir.

3. While a fig 8 mic has the most direction independent frequency response of all mics, its mainly exploited when two are used for Blumlein, to get the image accuracy that such directional frequency independence gives.

4. I have only ever heard of Fig 8's pointing forward to be used to tame a really bad acoustic, where rejection of side wall echoes or reflections and floor/ceiling reflections is essential to rescue the recording.

5. As a decca tree normally goes "above" the sound source to try to reach into a large source and also to pick up room sound and mix it in a nice swimmy way, Fig 8's will need to be pointed down to get full amplitude response from them or are you positioning your tree only 4ft above the ground.

I am most interested in your decisions and experiences with this technique, its certainly worth a try. What is your impression of the result, what does it sound like and why do you use it?

I'm also a "usualy" spaced omnis on a Grand Piano kind of guy. Either KM 130 or TLM 50, most ofte the latter. Most often like 3-5 meters away (10'-17') and 2 - 3 meters up (7' - 10'), spaced about one meter apart (4').

What make of omni one chooses is a matter of taste, but I belive it should be eq'd for diffuse field recording. That said, one of my teachers used a spaced pair of U-87 for hundreds of piano recordings in over 35 years, in their Omni setting, but U87'ns none the less.. And nobody (that I know of) ever complained about his sound quality..

And ever since I lerned that quite many of Decca's piano recordings where made with a spaced pair of KM 83's I dont see any way back :D

I've tried crossed 8's (Blumlein), most recently with a pair of Pearl ELAM-B Lince-Source mikes (http://www.pearl.se/eelm.htm) whilst they had a quite a nice sonic caracter, I did not like their imaging (Niether did I when I used a pair of KM 120) - I belive Mr Alexander of Water Lily Acoustics use a pair of ELM-B, or perhaps the M/S versieon with one ELM-B and one cardioid ELM-C. (I'm hoping to test a Royer SF-24 at my next piano session, not lest, because I like to prove myself wrong )

/ptr

We favour a Blumlein main pair (AKG 426, SF24, KM120pr) with omni outriggers (4003, KM130). When positioned correctly, this gives the best combination of both assets of these methods, although there is usually only a little of the omnis in depending on the room acoustic quality. With a great room the omnis are almost discarded.

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Tomorrow is the first day of the recording session(s) and I will try and post some MP3s of the first day takes (where is a good place on the WWW to do that?) Then you can comment and help me do a better job. The recording starts at 4:30 pm EDT and will go until the pianst is tired (I figure about 5 hours) Wish me luck!