Thread: Mics for live recording of choir?

I've done a number of choral recordings. I still consider myself an intermediate rookie in the field. I've had some very nice recordings, and a few that were less than great (although still good). Over time I have moved away from LDC mics to SDCs. I get better results with the small mics. It's also a lot easier to prop a pair up high on a stand.

I have generally not been using spaced omnis - I often record in spaces that would not compliment that arrangement, and I find I spaced-omni recordings often do not present the image I like to hear in a recording.

I decided to go with the AKB Blue Line mics for my affordable choral setup. These mics have very flat response, sound quite good, and the changeable capsules makes them a very flexible option without breaking the bank.

I currently have the SE300B bodies, a pair of CK91 capsules, and a CK94 Figure 8. This lets me to XY, ORTF, and MS recording. I will soon be getting a pair of CK92 Omni capsules so I can go with spaced omnis or a Jecklin disk. Another CK94 (rather expensive) will add Blumlein as an option. In time I will also add another pair of C391Bs (SE300B+CK91) so I can setup two pairs when needed.

I don't know what AKG Prices are like in Europe, but here a pair of C391Bs and a pair of CK92 capsules would fall well within your budget.

You may count me as a beginner here as well, done only a few choir recordings. Done a bit of orchestra recordings though.

I have tested the R4 and found it to be quite decent. It will definitely allow you to document yourself. You may read my review in the latest number of the magazine Studio (in Swedish). Used it to mic an amateur orchestra playing with a cello soloist.

I would also go primarily for small diameter condensor mics and I tend to favor omni mics. Sometimes though that is not the right choice and cardoids may be a better choice.

I will leave the recommendation of mics to better suited people at the moment (they are around at this forum).

For mic setups in AB and ORTF I think that www.dpamicrophones.com has a good starting point in the "university". They do say some odd things about cardoids which you might want to take with a grain of salt though.

For Swedish prices I recommend you to check out www.thomann.de . This is a mailorder house that sells with all taxes and such included. I have had only good experiences with them. Be sure to never pay more then their prices, with a bit of work you should be able to get below them. Swedish list prices can at times be much higher. Also keep an eye on the www.vendolin.se site, which seems to be the main internet site for this kind of things.

Where in Sweden are you situated? Maybe we could arrange for some exchange of ideas (I am in Stockholm). Please feel free to call me on ghellquist (at) yahoo (dot) se.

Gunnar

www.musik-service.de and www.musicians-gear.com will only charge the German VAT rate, whereas thomann will charge at the Swedish rate, even though they are based in Germany. Musicians-gear can take a while to deliver.

John

Condenser microphones, both large and small capsule, are fine, if you constantly like to battle a lot of sibalence (men seem to like that more but as a woman, it drives me crazy). One of my favorite choral vocal microphones are the Beyer M130 figure 8 and M160 HyperCardioid beautiful ribbon microphones. The warmth and lushness is second to none. The combination of these make for lovely middle side or MS recordings (with a proper mounting adapter and with a sofware or hardware decoder). Alternativley, a pair of M160s (with a simple stereo mic bar) in an XY (capsules together) or ORTF (capsules facing out) configuration is also very nice. These ribbon microphones, are smaller and much more affordable than the Coles and are more affordable than the Royer. You will need a decent pair of microphone preamplifiers that are quiet enough with a reasonable amount of gain available (I use APIs and/or old Neves). Of course, the ribbons must be handled more delicately than any condenser microphones (never blow into them to test them). These microphones are made in Germany and are much closer to you than China or Australia![/b]

Hey Daniel. One thing you could try is a pair of Sennheiser mkh 40s. I know they're a little out of the price range but not too much. I have done a few recordings of choirs and "choir and orchestra" with these microphones. If you can stretch that far, I would strongly recommend them. You could even try picking them up on Ebay.
I recorded the choirs in a couple of very nice venues like the chapel in Trinity College Dublin and St. Patrick's Cathedral, both of which have very nice acoustics which the mics picked up very nicely.
Eoin

The majority of our CD projects is choral and organ, and while nothing surpasses the Royer SF12 and 24 for capturing the choral resonance without excessive sibilants, they are expensive.

For those on a budget the clear choice is the DPA4061 with the grid removed, which gives VERY flat response. Many have pointed out the nosie figure, but in the realm of live recording the noise floor of the room with an audience makes that a moot point.

If you find this hard to believe with a mic that is about 400 euros, I have used them in conjunction with my 4003s and 4006s. While not identical, they sounded VERY similar. There is nothing comparable in their price range that I am aware of.

Rich

Hello everyone and thanks for your replies.

It’s interesting to see that so many of you recommend cardioid mics instead of omnis. I would have thought that omnis gave the best result when recording large choirs? At least that’s the impression I have got by reading posts in various forums.

I had of course hoped for a “Oh, yeah! Go for the Rode K-2. It’s your obvious choice.”, so that we easily could decide what to buy. But naturally that ain’t going to happen since different people have different views on how things should sound.

As far as I can see, all of you recommend SDC instead of LDC. Don’t know much about the differences, except that which I have read at DPA’s site. Seems to give a wider frequency range at the cost of a higher self noise and lower sensitivity. Maybe that’s something to go for then…

I am a little hesitant about buying cardioid mics since we already have the ATM33a’s. That’s one of the reasons we looked at omnis, as a complement to our ATMs. We had thought of using two new omnis as our usual AB setup and at the same time start experimenting with XY/ORTF position of our old ATMs. Would you really recommend that we buy new cardioids instead of omnis even if we already have the ATMs? Or are the ATMs not good enough?

The changeable pattern of the Rode K-2s was an interesting feature for us since we are a little unsure of whether we should get omnis or not. But there are maybe SDCs with changeable pattern also? Is this type of changeable pattern recommendable or does it decrease the performance of a mic? The AKG Blueline Zemlin mentioned is of course one interesting option.

In reply to Gunnars post:

We have already read your review in Studio (one of very few revives we’ve been able to find of Edirol R4) and that review was one of the reasons we finally decided for it.
We’ve already planned on buying some of the equipment from Thomann. Nice to hear a confirmation that they are an OK company. As for the location we are situated in Gothenburg. Chalmers University Choir (http://www.choir.chs.chalmers.se/)

/Daniel

I will be blunt: the only mics mentioned that are smooth enough for what you want to do are the Sennheisers (out of your budget) and the DPAs. And cardioids cannot (due to design and the laws of physics) capture the low end as faithfully as omnis. I have owned and used many AKGs and would not choose any of them for choral. There is only one Japanese/Chinese mic I would consider-- John Eargle uses the and they are not in your price range (even if I COULD remember the brand!).

Either Sennheiser or DPA is something you will never want to get rid of later. And not having used the MKH40 cardioids I do not know if the midrange will be a problem with sibilance, often a problem with most brands. EQing that region (2k-6k) will muck up the imaging unless you have linear phase EQ, and even then can be problematic.

Another advantage of the DPA 4061s is that they are small enough to use with even the lightest and thinnest of stands, and being so small they are almost perfect omnis and it matters little how they are aimed (but spacing and height are important).

The disadvantage is that the extension cable and XLR adapters for the Microdot connectors is not cheap.

Rich