What is it exactly that we are selling anyways?

[Bob Olhsson]

I have my own ideas but I'd like to see some group thoughts.

[audiowkstation]

Basically that R.O. Has started it's own label...it is up to us to submit artists that are unsigned and we will get to the point with it where we have viable product to offer on the website and distribution. Artists do not make much money on a compilation but if that is where we start...I am hip to it.

Out of all the studios that are here, their are litterally hundreds of unsigned works floating in the balance. For one, we are our own audience right now...but that will change as exposure happens.

Do you have anything Bob that you would like to see submitted as an R.O. Project?

I have at least 11 albums (various artist) that I have marketing control over...and I would love to see some of them as an R.O release.

Like I say, I am hip to a compilation ...but it is more for an advertisement that an artist money maker. Nice thing, we pool our resources and profit sharing is something that can happen as well.

I agree that you need your pass receivers down field and open before you through the football...but R.0. is a big stadium and we need teams and players. The crowds will come.

Submission has to be an agreement with your artist, yourself and R.O.

I feel Chris wants to see this portion of R.O. become another vehicle for artist to have avalible for exposure. I would love to buy some R.O. discs myself, or better yet, do market distribution in my area of about 500,000 people.

Each area can have an R.O. representative and be responsable for a select number of CD's to certain stores and sales tracking.

Put me down for the tri-state area of NW Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri.

We are selling ourselves, associated artist, and as many CD's as possible. R.O can make the difference. Involvement is key, it will not work by itself.

The project will only happen when submissions occur and can be agreed upon. The mix fest, and the mastering project is a test of cooperation. My end is running really smooth and I feel if an artist can have pressing avalible in limited quantities, the "network" of R.O.& supporters will get them out their fast. Remember, distributors do get a cut, as R.O. and the artist and other involved parties. I have finished product ready to submit. Packaged, sealed and bar coded. I hope others also want to take the oppurtunity to do their part and make this happen.

I am certain that Chris will have a thread on submissions and folks can send samples for him to pool and select as the first R.O project, be it a compilation or simply an artist that does not mind doing this....this way and seeing how the structure of R.O. will come together.

Right now...you may have sceptics, 1 year from now, people will be paying to get their project in here.. It is quite a network we have here and I would love to see it happen and do my part, (whatever it takes) to see it evolve. Plans are being put together as we speak.

Name your involvement, where you can best serve and reap the dividends in the future.

I also offer my studio services for a very discounted rate. Very discounted.

[Ang1970]

Bob, did you mean with the record label thing, or this forum in general?

[Bob Olhsson]

I mean in the most general sense as a topic of discussion. I also mean it on a level basic to all genres and distribution methods.

We must define the product and we must understand how our product might or might not fulfill a buyer's needs before we can even begin to go beyond throwing time, money and effort into a bottomless pit.

Most of the successful (meaning fame and/or financial success) people I've known in the music business had this in sharp focus before they ever walked into a studio to begin recording.

[bigtree]

Great we have a dialog going on here and the more the better. We have a plan and the more we talk about it the more we will learn. I'm not sure if we should make this part of our conversation public now or later. This is a first for me so excuse me if I seem a bit naive...I am!

My better judgement tells me we should take this area of the topic (meaning do able marketing strategies) to the lounge or something......? We'd hate to give it away before we start. Angelo called me last night with some (as always) great ideas that would give us a few ways to market our members and establish RO as a label. I'm sure if we keep brain storming we're going to keep comimg up with more ideas. There are so many musicians with so many different styles to draw from within the "RO" community already that it will be easy to find quality music and recordings. The key is dividing them up into genres and putting together professional packages that we can market. That's as far as we should talk openly online for now. We need to establish a trusting board that is committed to our cause.

We have it all right here. We just need to think about it, take the blinders off and do it one step at a time.


Lets keep the ideas coming and when one clicks we will put it into the bag.

RO is going to become a label and we will grow. Anyone interested in seriously working with us email me here: boardmembers@recording.org

"Success is achieved by those who try"

[Bear's Gone Fission]

Bob, so you meant what do we sell when we sell music? Damned if I can answer for the industry, since I'm not buying what they're selling the most of.

As a consumer and listener I buy music that compells me. I long ago gave up music as lifestyle statement or picking music as a mark of being a musician. If the artist is new to me, I need to hear some of it, and something will grab me, usually the harmonic structure (I once instantly fell for one rock song with the same cadence in the chorus as another one of slightly different genre which I already liked, I doubt a coincidence), often the unique quality of the vocal, sometimes the art of the arrangement. I differ from most of the population in that lyrics aren't of foremost importance to me, and the beat alone doesn't mean sh*t without a song. I don't think I'm the stuff pop producers are made from. I personally don't have a problem with that, and I'm a hobbyist, so no clients do either.

Bear

[Bob Olhsson]

Bear, that's exactly the kind of thing we need to be thinking about, what are the factors that make each of us a fan or not a fan. For that matter what is a fan and how does somebody become a fan?
Who are our personal stars and why did they become our stars? Why do some other people's stars not become our stars. (I'm defining "star" as somebody who we will go out of our way and gladly pay in order to hear.)

[Bear's Gone Fission]

I'll name names. Listening to Chris Whitley right now. I gladly payed full ($16.98?!) price for his current cd, try to see him on tour when I can. He had me hooked from the moment I found his second album in a used bin. He has an authenticity (and I'm not talking the critic's crap that he's an authentic blues singer/guitarist, hell, he's more of a soul singer, and an odd one if that) and the quality of a searching artist, trying to home in on it, whatever it is. He's changed his sound but always been himself in this respect, not as critics thought early on changing for the market.

He isn't the sort of artist the majors really support anymore, as they need bigger sales to maximize profit, and discretionary money to support mid-level aritsts has dried up. Sony dropped him several years ago, but he's grown stronger with frequent indie releases and constant touring. He's got a good sized cult following that is loyal, critical acclaim, and respect of his fellow musicians, but he doesn't have multi-platinum written all over him. And his lyrics are not teeny-bopper fodder, and are a bit cryptic at times. I'm not very focussed on lyrics, but they do need to be literate, preferably literary, in order to avoid a negative score, and his are poetic, often romantic, and connect. I'm not the demographic buying CD's, unfortunately for Chris.

Bear

[Bob Olhsson]

I hope people will think real hard about what Bear just wrote.

Every artist has a direct relationship with an audience. Bear could care less if the CD was on Sony or Chris Whitley's own label. The same is true of Ricky Martin's fans. Imagine if Chris Whitley had become a soap opera star after being a child star in Latin music?

Again, what are we selling and who are we selling it to?

[audiowkstation]

For as long that I can remember, the "hit" song(s) of any particular album were not my favorite. Often in the 45RPM days, the B side grabbed my attention much faster toward purchasing the album than the "hit".

I am a rather wierd bird that in my musical enjoyment, the lyrics oftentimes are not that important and that I go for entertainment value, soulful sounds and quality productions. For years and years I have been convinced that a percentage (abit not a huge percentage) of sales were due to recording/production/mastering quality, as I have purchased music with the quality of the production and the musicianship as the reasons for said purchases.

May I also contradict this with live bands that had a meager budget in equipment, not the best "sonics" per say but unbelievable delivery and entertainment value. One example is some of the originality of the "London Towne" track presented in the mix fest. Although not a favorite amongst folks here, the delivery and effort that went into this work is evident and the song runs through my head quite a bit, I have memorized all the tracks already..even did some sample remastering of the Mpeg to hear the harmonies better and to check the thunder and hail storm at the end. The song grabbed my attention and we all know Mpeg is not what you call "broadcast quality" and I feel that the mix varieties will also do alot for this tune.

Call it what you will and everyone here is not your "typical audience". How many thousands of hours of your career have you (we, us) spent working with artist that have not met the mainstream? When I worked regularly with Warner Bros. I think the figure was less than 5% of the productions actually received distribution!

Point being is that what we like here and what we work on could certainly go mainstream if the distribution network does not fail us. I also feel that many of the "Indie" studios are doing really good productions that need the push of top quality control in mixing and mastering (they deserve it)and a chance at exposure. Countless tens of thousands of productions are sitting as promo material, never to be pressed beyond the promo. Record pools get this music which may never get in the air.

This is a tough business and we, the engineers, producers, etc.., cannot agree universally on favorite styles of music or artists but we certainly can agree when a production is exceptional and well done.

I still buy music around the production quality and I believe others in our business are "guilty" of that as well...no wonder we don't usually listen to mainstream garbage and highly compressed boy bands and Britneyfied drivel. Give me a fine production that kicks ass, I would listen more. Patrick O'Hearn, not my favorite music but I have all his albums because of fine production quality control...it is a pleasure to listen to. Another fav. is Yello. Yes Techno. I am not a large Techno fan...but the mixes that are done by Yello are top notch...yes I have all their albums too..as well as Pink Floyd, Sheffield Labs, and many Mobile Fidelity releases.

I find myself enjoying live Jazz for this reason as well as the fine musicianship. Kenny G and Diana Krall are not my idea of Jazz, folks.

Would London Towne sell? Who Knows?

It is a magical combination of many of the elements and for many the lyrics/personal life situations coinciding at the right time makes the song work for the mainstream and distribution/exposure.

We as engineers may not be the best Jugde of what is sellable or what is not. I can gurantee you can put ANYTHING on the radio or TV Video and run it 10 times per day..and it will sell big numbers. Moneywise, this is where it's at...although I do not like the situation as it is presented.

The MTV culture makes me Ill. Call me a square or "not with the times"...But it really sux, profusely. Given the oppurtunity though (because of money)...I think I could Don a leather pair of pants and make my hair look like shit and fit right in. Be happy to get the hell out of there as soon as possible. The whole scene reeks of low class trash. Those who are in awe of these artist that are taking the awards..I am sorry. I don't get it...(unless I was bringing 8 figures in being involved) Of course, even U2...the mixes are really not that tight..still don't get it.

Don't get mad or prejudge me for this rant. This is my vantage point and I like to speak my mind about it. The secret society needs exposing.

I feel that we are on a whole different level.

The Foolishness of it all.

Now you know what that tells you. Go to a Casino with 300 dollars and if you get up to $360 (20%) you better get the hell out. Go into the Casino with 50K$ and you have a better chance at walking out with more than 60 bucks profit. You can also lose your butt.

The production has to be super. The distribution has to be there. The song is not as important to the mainstream as we think. It is about something else entirely. Money.

To sell, you have to be out there. Without that..we are satisfying our selves by what we can do..No one else will care.

Simple as that.