Thread: Sytek MPX-4Aii pre - good enough?

I'd rather have two RNPs, or maybe one RNP, a VTB-1 and a Focusrite Trak Master - though I've never actually tried the VTB and the Focusrite (which may be really bad I don't know), but having some options to pick and choose from might be good. I personally like the RNP, for it's price. I can't say much about the Sytek other then some have complained about not having enough headroom. But yeah I've heard good things about them too.

There has been much discussion on the sytek preamp in this forum already, pro and con. Do a search and you will see. I have one and am very happy with it. there are others who say buy a John Hardy instead. Since I haven't heard a John Hardy I can't advise on how great the difference is. I have heard mackies, arts, motus, ranes, behringers and other budget preamps and the Sytek is definitely a cut above. I also have a Grace 101 and the sytek is close to my ears. (grace has a lil bit more definition in the top end) I like the sytek with the burr brown for pop vocals better than the grace. I am sure other mods who have heard both the Sytek and the john hardy can tell you a little more on how they differ. If you do a search, though, you will see that the subject has been beat to death. (and there is no real concensus out there!) I guess preampa are like women, there are many different flavors and guys have their preferences. (if you are a woman, please reverse the satement!!!!)

I'm gonna use it mainly for recording electric guitars , bass and vocals. I won't be recording any drums so anything more than 4 channels will be a waste.
I prefer having at least two channels though so I can do stereo recordings.

Just FYI, the music I'm making is heavy metal in the vein of Metallica/Pantera thus the guitars will be heavily distorted. Vocalsl include both singing and screaming. So what I am looking for is something that will give me the best sound possible on those applications.

So far my options include:
Sytek MPX-4Aii
RNP
Sebatron VMP2000eVU (if I can find it really cheap that is)

Also I've seen the Apogee Mini MP being mentioned a few times, anyone care to elaborate a bit on this?

The topic is very subjective. Some folks seem to think the moderately priced, mid level, electronically balanced mic pres like the RNP and the Syteks offer a substantial increase in quality. I think that while they are a bit different sounding, IMO they are not better than the average Mackie or other small format mixers pre amps.. but instead, the result of natures abhorrence to a vacuum, a reaction to the marketplace screaming for a great mic pre for less than $500.

Manufacturers know they can market this stuff to people who have never heard a really great mic pre and therefore have no real frame of reference to make a comparison... and by making them sound a bit different, they can assert that they sound "better" ...

Unfortunately, I think it is mostly a lot of hype. I have to ask ..."If these mic pres are so freakin' transparent, if they are so accurate (as they are claimed to be), why do they all sound so different?? Everything colors a signal ... there is no straight wire with gain ... The cheapo manufacturers all go for the uncolored / accurate designs because they are easier and cheaper to build. They can come up with a printed circuit board and a few surface mounted robotically stuffed chips and a very low voltage power supply (wall warts). I would like to see a transformer balanced mic pre with discreet transistors and a 24 volt power supply at an affordable price point ... OH! wait ... it can't be done that cheap ....

While we are at it, let's discuss these chips that have dozens of components all stuffed into one .... IMO these are the problem as much as anything else ... The consistency from chip to chip is questionable and when the chip or the assembly that it is mounted on fails, the whole assembly has to be replaced because it would cost more than the whole piece is worth to disassemble it and place the assembly into a jig to replace the surface mounted component. On the other hand, if you have discreet components, soldered through the circuit board, any tech in your home town, with a proper schematic can replace the defective part .... and you are back in business faster that your pre amp can reach the service center in LA.

Also to be considered, is the availability of assemblies in the future. Once the product is out of production, good luck .. But with products that are built using discreet components, replacements or original parts can almost always be found. Just look at all the old Neve and APIs there are still in service ...

Bob Rock recorded Metallica and he uses vintage Neve 1073s to record everything .. If that 's the sound you want you need a mic pre that is transformer balanced ... The Sytek, RNP, Grace all are electronically balanced, the Sebatron has a transformer ... and while I personally like the Sebatron the best of all the pres you mention, I am not sure it is the sound you are looking for .... the pre that would do what you want the best would be a Great River MP NV .... and a single channel one (MP1NV) can be purchased for around a grand I believe ...

FWIW, here's what Steve Albini has to say (as a guy who knows a thing or two about recording distorted guitars):

"I wholeheartedly agree that the Syteks are excellent mic amps and excellent value.

They are also an interesting oddity, in that they don't follow any of the current trends in mic pre-amp design, and are excellent by virtue of how they are made, and not a quirky topology or exotic components.

If you open one up, you'll see a simple, elegant amplifier using what appear to be bog-standard TL072 (I think, I don't recall) J-FETs. No expensive transformer, no video-speed op-amp, no silver-foil-on-beeswax capacitors. In short, no magic. Just a simple, well-laid-out design, using standard but high-quality components which have been individually-selected for low noise and tight tolerances.

The designer, Mike Stoica, builds and tunes them himself, and sells them not for the highest price he could possibly get (he could easily get more), but for a _reasonable_ profit which ensures he makes money from repeat business.

I own many channels of these, and I rate them qualitatively as equals - not substitues for - my Massenburgs, Neves, John Hardys and the best console pre-amps I have ever heard. They are crisp, clean and noise-free, and they provide more-than-adequate gain for low-output mics like old RCAs, Altecs and the like, without adding breakup, instability or hiss.

There is a golden age for any style of electronic design. Tubes began as unruly, low-bandwidth, noisy, inefficient beasts. Transformer and tube technology matured to the point that we were graced with lovely sounding equipment by the late '50s and into the '60s. Microphones, oweing to their simplicity, matured faster.

Transistor electronics were even more bastardly until designers like Neve, Flickinger, API, and Trident placed the emphasis where it belonged, in signal integrity as a whole, not just in the frequency-domain.

With excellent IC-based electronics currently being built by GML, Neve (Rupertless), Neotek and Sytek, we may be approaching a breakthrough in the quality of IC-based audio, as designers solve the subtle but serious problems of earlier designs.

Most folks do, however, get it wrong, and we still have to suffer through mass-produced semi-professional crap being used on a regular basis. Sytek and things like it are an excellent alternative to this caliber of equipment, for no more money. Hurrah.

-steve albini"

In short, at $750 - $800 a piece for 4-channels, they're a damn good value.

Sorry, I don't buy it .... ya gets what ya pays for.

I suppose at some point I will have to post some comparison audio clips of a Sytek vs. Neve types like the MPNV and my 9098, as well as my Sebatron and a Mackie pre so that you all can hear the differences yourselves ... That's what it took to get the RNPers to quiet down .... and I suppose that's what it will take to get advocates of the Sytk to do the same.

Anyone want to send me one for a week or two ???

Originally Posted by Cedar Flat Fats

Sorry, I don't buy it ....

You don't have to buy it. But a lot of people have, and get excellent results with them.

I suppose at some point I will have to post some comparison audio clips of a Sytek vs. Neve types like the MPNV and my 9098, as well as my Sebatron and a Mackie pre so that you all can hear the differences yourselves ... That's what it took to get the RNPers to quiet down .... and I suppose that's what it will take to get advocates of the Sytk to do the same.

I've used the Sytek pre's on many occasions. I've also used Neves, Great Rivers, 9098's and Mackie's. The Sytek is a damn fine little utility pre that is worlds better than a Mackie. No MP3 clip of yours is going to "quiet me down" or in any way change the opinions of them that I have formed through personal experience. Nor, I suspect, would your clips "quiet down" Albini. To suggest otherwise is more than a little pompous.

Anyone want to send me one for a week or two ???

No.

NIko,
nee ner nee ner to you too!

Hey! I have and idea. Let's keep the comments on the topic and let's not call each other names.

Everytime we go here (cheap preamps) people who have nothing more to offer start calling other people names (usually me) and making personal attacks ... it really doesn't further the discussion and really turns readers off. I never cease to wonder at people who want to insist that cheap pres can sound as good as time tested designs.

If you could be so kind to post some mp3s of the Sytek against the Mackie and the MPNV I would be thrilled .... but according to what you said, nothing would convince you differently because Steve Albini has said otherwise. It must be nice to be able to form an opinion without thinking or judging for yourself. It's a real time saver.

Record the samples, and then give the results to some neutral person, like Xavier (who seems to like Syteks). Then post the compaison clips without saying which is which, until several people have commented on which they like best. ... I would be willing to venture the MPNV will come out better and it really wouldn't surprise me if the Mackies did well also .. ... in the case of the RNP, my Mackie SR24vlz pres were judged to sound clearer and have a better overall sound.

Last kostein asked specifically about the sounds recorded by "Metallica/Pantera.. " I responded by pointing out that Bob Rock uses Neve 1073's. I think that my Bob Rock trumps your Steve Albini ...