FINALLY!! The saga begins

[Rod Gervais]

I saw the Toft ATB32 while in LA. That is one sweeeeeeet console. Very musical EQ, great summing and easy to work around on. Just too small. I'm talking with PMI (US Distro) about tying two of the ATB's together... probably a 32 and a 24. More to follow...

Max,

I probably spent 2 or 3 hours speaking with Malcolm about those boards - and that expandability was supposed to be one of the original goals .

So I can't see that being a big deal.......

One of the Toft boards will be my next board purchase........

Rod

[MadMax]

Max,

I probably spent 2 or 3 hours speaking with Malcolm about those boards - and that expandability was supposed to be one of the original goals .

So I can't see that being a big deal.......

One of the Toft boards will be my next board purchase........

Rod

Yeah... it's a r ain't it?!?!?

The only other glitches I see are the lack of solo/pfl indicator's on each channel and a meter bridge. Otherwise, that console rips! Especially when you look at the price point!

On the acoustics front... When I was talking with the probable HVAC contractor, two points came up.

1. He indicated that local NC code says there would need to be a ridge vent and soffit vents in the "attic". This seems to be a bit of a sticky point at first glance. Doesn't that present a sound leakage issue over the CR? If so, my plan is to create vent channels out of blue styrofoam up the roof line by tacking the blue to the truss faces. Then 12-16" below the ridge/ridge vent, create a "U" baffle to at least attenuate sound.

2. HVAC is completely taken care of for the tracking area w/Unit 2. The CR and server rooms are handled by Unit 1. However, we are not seeing the rest of the lounge being services by Unit 1. Is there possibly enough capacity left on this unit to handle the lounge? -or- should I just go ahead and get a 3rd heatpump and set that outside behind the building as originally planned?

Thanx!
Max

[MadMax]

Interesting information....

Just got off the phone with someone at PMI about the Toft ATB's.

Seems that contrary to what Malcom evidently told my studio designer, and what the two previous calls to PMI support indicated... there is no way in hell that PMI or Toft is willing to assist in lashing two consoles together.

I was told that for it to be done, I'd be on my own and that it would strictly be an after-market thing, that would likely void my warranty.

Is this typical of the higher-end companies to be such weenies in assisting customers?

[Rod Gervais]

The only other glitches I see are the lack of solo/pfl indicator's on each channel and a meter bridge. Otherwise, that console rips! Especially when you look at the price point!

The meter bridge is offered as an option to the board - I owuldn't go without it.......

As far as solo/PFL goes - I think this is just verbiage.........

This from the owner's manual:

The input channel is provided with a stereo, non destructive after fade listen system (AFL). By depressing this button, it is possible to hear the selected signal in isolation (or mixed with other selected AFL signals). This signal follows the position of the channel pan control so that the signal
can be monitored with the stereo perspective intact. As it is a monitor function only, the AFL can be depressed when recording or mixing without it harming the signal path. It is however, possible to change the function of the switch on a channel by channel basis so that the signal becomes a mono, pre-fade source (PFL). This is useful if the console is used in a live sound application where a simple check to see if a channel is ‘live’ is required without having to push up the fader. By removing the base panel of the mixer and accessing the individual channel PCB’S, it will be possible to see a push button switch mounted approximately halfway down the circuit board. When the button is depressed (factory default setting) the signal is in AFL mode. If the button is not depressed, the signal from that channel will become PFL.

From a functional point of view - I beliee this gets the job done.

1. He indicated that local NC code says there would need to be a ridge vent and soffit vents in the "attic". This seems to be a bit of a sticky point at first glance. Doesn't that present a sound leakage issue over the CR? If so, my plan is to create vent channels out of blue styrofoam up the roof line by tacking the blue to the truss faces. Then 12-16" below the ridge/ridge vent, create a "U" baffle to at least attenuate sound.

ALready figured you'd have to do that - which is why the ceiling itselfis drywall finish - nothing to concern yrself with - vent it properly and it's a non-issue - no need to begin screwing around with blue-board and (or) baffles.

2. HVAC is completely taken care of for the tracking area w/Unit 2. The CR and server rooms are handled by Unit 1. However, we are not seeing the rest of the lounge being services by Unit 1. Is there possibly enough capacity left on this unit to handle the lounge? -or- should I just go ahead and get a 3rd heatpump and set that outside behind the building as originally planned?

Max,

my services were really studio related and not intended to cover the lounge (although I did end up covering the ADA in that area) and you should plan for additional HVAC for thast area........... There really isnt't any extra unless no one was n the main tracking room -

Sincerely

Rod

[MadMax]

The meter bridge is offered as an option to the board - I owuldn't go without it.......

I agree, except that the RADAR does have it's own meter bridge, so there's at least SOME kind of accurate metering. The meter bridges are an option, but I haven't actually seen a price on one yet.

As far as solo/PFL goes - I think this is just verbiage...

Well, there IS a solo/PFL indicator, but it's a mater LED. There isn't one on each channel. Like I said, it ain't a deal killer, just a minor inconvenience, which if it's too much of a PITA, I can either do a simple LED tied to the 12Volt rail and the PFL button, or a simple card with a latching gate to turn one on.

Already figured you'd have to do that - which is why the ceiling itself is drywall finish - nothing to concern yourself with - vent it properly and it's a non-issue - no need to begin screwing around with blue-board and (or) baffles.

OK. I looked a bit closer, and see what your talking about. Forgive me... just a bit of vapor lock on my part... DOH!! So you think that just open soffit vents and a ridge vent with the "attic space" open and clear is going to be fine then?

my services were really studio related and not intended to cover the lounge (although I did end up covering the ADA in that area) and you should plan for additional HVAC for thast area........... There really isnt't any extra unless no one was n the main tracking room -

Rod,

That's what I remembered, but I guess I once again didn't exactly express it clearly.

Lemme see if I can "re-ask/say" his question... The HVAC contractor was looking at the prints and asked about whether there was indeed any extra capacity on unit one instead of adding a third unit. No real gripes, just a question he asked me to pass on.

So, a third unit it is! The square footage of the lounge is small enough that the cost of the 3rd unit shouldn't be too horrible.

I'm getting a bit concerned about the plumbing contractor though. He was supposed to call me for the last 3 days about the riser/vent drawings... and I haven't heard a word. Those drawings are holding up the permit process and it's just pushing everything further and further behind.

Thanx!!!
Max

[Space]

He indicated that local NC code says there would need to be a ridge vent and soffit vents in the "attic". This seems to be a bit of a sticky point at first glance. Doesn't that present a sound leakage issue over the CR?

Each state requires venting of the roof area. This is to allow air to move around, it helps remove the build-up of heat, protects your insulation from convection and adds years to your shingle life.

How much noise will your hvac equipment make up there, and what can you do to suppress it? Your ceiling area, above and below the wall line is really your only point of attack.

However, you may can "extend" your walls above the plate line into the attic and to the rafter essentially suppressing attic-borne sound from having free run of the individual rooms and stopping the "room to room" leakage that is likely to occur.

Stop the sound before it comes from the attic into the room(s) or vice versa.



Brien

[Rod Gervais]

[quote="Space"]

How much noise will your hvac equipment make up there, and what can you do to suppress it? Your ceiling area, above and below the wall line is really your only point of attack.

However, you may can "extend" your walls above the plate line into the attic and to the rafter essentially suppressing attic-borne sound from having free run of the individual rooms and stopping the "room to room" leakage that is likely to occur.

Stop the sound before it comes from the attic into the room(s) or vice versa.

Brien,

you would really have to see the plans before making comments - there isn't any issue, (or going to be any issue) with this HVAC as designed.

Both systems use huge plenums - decouple from the duct at all penetrations into the rom through the use of very short (less than 6') of insulated flex - decouple from the Air Handler Unit through the use of canvas boots - and both the supply and return air ducts are 100% lined (with the exception of one short 5' section of duct that has the humidifiers located in each unit).

Below the attic level the rooms are isolated with their ceilings and then the ceiling on the bottom of the atic trusses -

The party wall for the main room and the control room run up to and terminate at this attic ceiling.

No duct penetrations for either side cross that party wall.

The only cross connection possible (main room to iso booth) is handled through the use of 2 custom transfer boxes - that are lined - large and woven travel - that take place exactly at the penetration itself.

Air Velocities in both systems are 100cfm or less.......

I understand my client's concerns - but he doesn't have to do a thing for everything to be just fine in the end - it's all been worked through........

Sincerely,

Rod

[Space]

I would love to see the plans I saw a few shots of the building and it is huge I'm tellin' ya! Lotta vertical space.


As I read back it is evident that I am where I should not currently be

Sorry 'bout that. But get that ftp server fixed. How long do you think "This old house" would have lasted without pictures? 80

Brien

[MadMax]

I would love to see the plans I saw a few shots of the building and it is huge I'm tellin' ya! Lotta vertical space.


As I read back it is evident that I am where I should not currently be

Sorry 'bout that. But get that ftp server fixed. How long do you think "This old house" would have lasted without pictures? 80

Brien

Brien,

The ftp space IS fixed... just not too much to look at right now.

But while I'm at it... a short update.

There's a LOT of PA and misc stuff, including building materials in the "studio" right now. Been going through a minor delimma as to how to proceed with the concrete work. All of that "stuff" was supposed to have been moved to the wood shop, but on my mothers' passing, I inherited a LOT of furniture. Guess where all that furniture ended up... yup, you guessed right... the wood shop!

Obviously, the job will be less expensive if the concrete contractor can come in and do the job straight through w/o having to pour the job in two or three passes.

So, the cost of renting a container to put all that stuff in for 12 months is equal to the cost of a small out building. I've been thinking that my existing out building (12x16) would be adequate for my wood shop... which it will, but then I have no place to store up to six drum kits, the Rhodes and a couple of other amps, etc. Additionally, the there isn't any place to do any bench tech work... unless I was to do all that in the basement of the house.

So, long story short, I think I'm going to call the guy I got my last building from and have him deliver another 12x16 building next week. I'll place it fairly close to the studio, so it can easily be wired with three circuits... lights, bench power and a window AC unit. I've got a "Black Bart" wood stove that I can put in there for heat.

The guy who builds these buildings does a nice job, and they're only about $200 more than I can build EM' for... and it will save me the time and pain in labor. All I'll have to do is pre-wire the building and wait for the service to be completed and the final inspections done to get final power to the building... WITH inspections. I'll put insulation in the walls and finish the walls and ceiling with gypsum to at least keep the heat/AC in, as well as a bit of attenuation when working on gear.

I appreciate you keeping an eye on this venture into insanity... hopefully it's entertaining... as well as educational... to you or anyone else.

Keep an eye out... gonna' keep prayin' that this thing can get started soon! And when it does, I expect things to move rather quickly at points... and I hope to get lots of shots for all to look at.

Max

[MadMax]

Short update...

Neither the concrete contractor nor the plumber have called me back.

I really don't get it. I've told both contractors to bring me a contract and I'll sign it... oh well... their loss.

I called another concrete contractor this morning. We met just about an hour ago. Nice guy. He took copy of the plans and said he'd get back with me in a day or two.

We went out to the building and really looked things over. It seems that there is about an 8" drop in the existing "floor" from front of the building to the rear... Minor glitch.

It means that we will have to do one of two things.

1. Excavate the front of the building and the front half of the studio floor to match the rear. That ends up being well over 12" of soil removed and channeled to make way for drainage. That 12" becomes big bucks pretty quick... and even BIGGER bucks if we run into rock... which is very likely since we own what seems to be a fertile rock farm. The good thing is that the material removed from the front would be used to fill the lounge area and hill off the lounge.

2. Mildly excavate the front studio floor by 6" (less perimeter footings) and take the excavated material to the lounge area. That means having to put in footings and lay block walls for the lounge instead of building on a slab. However, it's probably going to be cheaper to build this way and loose 6" of room height (which I believe is already accounted for).

More fun to come... hopefully I can get a plumber committed to a contract this week.