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12 year old mogami cable vs new cable

Discussion in 'Accessories / Connections' started by audiokid, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I have 12 year old Mogami mic cable (no idea what number as it is worn off) and am wondering if it degrades in sound quality?

    or ... is the new Mogami mic cable better sounding than the old?
  2. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    has the cable oxidized? Been in the rain? Snow? No, then I think its just fine.
  3. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    +1. Also, if it hasn't been kinked though that isn't necessarily a deal breaker. I have bought miles of salvaged Canare and Mogami multipair cable over the years and once it's inspected and tested I don't think twice about it. Take care of your cables and they'll take care of you.
  4. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    If you keep the rats away... it should be good for another decade...
  5. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Ever had a pianer roll over them? How about an Iveco 18-footer? Good, they should be fine!
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    They look perfect other than being stored in my road cases in the Great White North at - 30 C .
  7. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    I'm afraid cryogenic freezing has no effect on non-ferrous metals ;-)
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    This is all good news because here is my next observation.

    My new Accusound Cables arrived yesterday and other than how impressed I am with the look and feel of them, they truly sound much better than my old Mogami. Not just a bit, a lot better. I am putting my Mogami cable in the spare box.
    It is very apparent that the Mogami sound like they are slightly muffled compared. The Accusound are far more transparent with much clearer and smoother highs. I would have never believed this but I am now a total believer. "there is a difference with these cables".
  9. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Are these mic cables or interconnects or all of the above?
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    They are Accusound Silver Studio Pro mic cables and made in the USA I might say...

    I am considering VOVOX for the interconnect cables.
  11. natural

    natural Active Member

    Perhaps it's not the cable but the XLR connectors attached to the cables?
  12. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    I am not sure of this... All metals* show lower resistance with lower temperaturs, but a mare -30 is not enough to get anywhere close to super conductor properties... ;-)

    * unless treated to become Negative Temperature Coefficient Thermistors...

    Hi audiokid
    nice to hear that you found a better sounding quality cable and brave of you to shout it out, too. There is a true cable-inquisition out there, just waiting for somebody who claims he can hear any differences between cables. lol...
    They immediately start trying to prove to you that this is impossible and you are being tricked by your ears and brain and that there is no highly technical quadrupel double blind test that would support the existence of such cables.
    Funny enough they accept the fact that there are cables which transfer different signals from the same source when tested against others, doing the old reverse phase cancellation test. BUT, they won't let you win... under no circs, whatsoever...
    I gave up on that and keep enjoying my cables...So should you.... Ears are not like ears and as to brains..., Well, I don't really want know what is going on in some heads...
  13. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    @Big K:
    You're right about that. Both the resistance and the temperature. The resistance factor disappears when returned to normal temps though. Cryogenic treatment generally is super cooling down to something like -300C for deep treatments. The theory is that the molecules etc get aligned under these conditions achieving favorable results when systematically warmed back to normal temperatures. Improvement is documented in ferrous metals for hammers, saws, drill blades and such. In musical instruments (non-ferrous) the studies show mixed and inconclusive results. In non ferrous metals it would seem the molecular alignment/tempering is not sustained across the warming process. Anecdotal improvements are rampant though it is difficult to separate measurable results from self belief generated phantom results. I would imagine this to be similar to studies if any on audio wire etc since it is Cu based. Interesting none the less.
  14. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    And I am not about to tell you that there isn't differences in all cables. Otherwise I would use cheap cables instead of Canare and Mogami wire. I just happen to have experience with the cryo process in regards brass instruments.
  15. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    Hi Jack

    Now, I recognized what you ment with criogenic freezing. A process known to me, but I was thinking of constant cooling,... My mistake.. prolly a language thing :)
    Hey, let me be a little smart ass, here.. ;-)) ( stupid little K put his hand up and shouts: Teacher..I know something..)
    Jack, you'll get the Nobel Prize for Physics when you find a way to cool anything down to -300 C... Pretty close to time travel....
    Untill the next Bavarian winter, maybe... all ends at −273,15C which should be cold enough to preserve the pork chops till the next BBQ...

    As to the cables... I speculate that with some brands ( maybe Vovox ) they use the opposite of crio freez..namely pressure and/or heat assisted sintering.
    A treatment that brings forth the strangest properties in a range of materials, but the infidels are hopping mad that no company has, yet, given away their production secrets and, therefore, claim even stronger that it is all hoax...
    Well, for that you have your right and left audio receptors...lol... which is also no valid argument for them... ears are human... must be flawed....

    If you find time, could you explane a bit more about the effect that crio treatment has on brass instruments? When I learned to play the trombone I found out fast enough that it is no fun to play at sub zero temperaturs in a marching band..., but this is not what you were talking about, is it ? JK..
  16. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Off topic but.....

    In brass instruments, one of the ideas is to "age" the brass. A different, and perhaps the real goal, is to remove all tension from the instrument. Much of this tension is the result of the original assembly. A master craftsman ensures that tubes (hand bent or machine bent whichever) match up without forcing them into place prior to soldering. Additionally, the bore of the tube (inner diameter) should be equal to the next piece of tube and mate together underneath the ferrule. The third major culprit of tension and airflow turbulence is in the bracing. Bracing across a major node for instance can ruin notes or at least make them quite difficult to play. One of the last major issues with assembly is solder blobs on the inside of the joints. It is obvious how that would cause problems. Anyway, the idea is basically to anneal or temper the brass not with heat but with cold. Basically as I understand it, by forcing the alignment of the alloy's molecules and contraction of the metal/solder/joints/bracing when the instrument comes back to room temperature it will no longer be under internal stress. At least until little johnny or suzie drops it.

    A good instrument will see some improvement. A bad instrument will see lots of change but isn't likely to turn into a good instrument. Good parts assembled poorly could be rectified by a complete disassembly, reassembled with all tubing and braces at rest prior to soldering, and then a cryo treatment. While I have felt the change in brass instruments I'm not convinced of it's panacea. The great and prized instruments of the master craftsmen of your country prior to WWII (Ed.Kruspe, CF Schmidt, Alexander etc) did not have this treatment even available but in my estimation frequently outplay most modern makers' instruments. Somehow we've lost something in the technology that was known 80 years ago even if only intuitively. I have wonderful specimens of horns from 1930's, 1940's, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1968, 1978, 1994, and 2003. I have a bunch of mediocre instruments too that may or may not be able to be turned into good versions provided the tapered tubing is good enough or could be modified to be good enough. I am doubtful however. I have the sensitivity to feel the problem and perhaps identify the location but not the knowledge to rectify it. I know three living horn makers that do have the knowledge and the sensitivity and many others that only have the technical knowledge.
  17. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    Knowledge and sensitivity, ardor and coolness ( forgive the modern word..lol ) at the same time to create and mold a masterpiece have often gone missing, these days.
    I was born and raised in a small town called Mittenwald, wellknown for its famous violine makers and their masterpieces of string instruments. Some of my best friends are award-winning violine makers.
    Those are quite calm, but certainly not dull, personalities, enjoying life, food and drink, yet, feel the most comfortabel in their workshops taking off micrometers of wood from a viola's top.
    Mind you, the guys are, like me, all far from little or scraggy... quite on the contrary... and so it looks rather funny to some to see them, withdrawn from the world, fine-tuning such tiny fragile instruments.
    They humbly build their violins, still learning and trying out new things, but also re-inventing or discorvering old and lost techniques. But this time, they say, they write up their knowledge and pass it on to the next generations..
    I am happy they do..Otherwise the violins and trumpets in 2030 might look like keyboards or Brain-to-Midi devices and you need a laptop to play them...

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