1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

15k to drop

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by jimbo_baby84, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. jimbo_baby84

    jimbo_baby84 Guest

    i've given up on building a studio with my "business partner" and am going it alone, which changes things for me alot. now i'm limited to less funds, but i have the freedom spend them however i want. so far i have a 002r, an imac g4, atc scm 50asl monitors, some cheap real world reference monitors, a revolution redd 47 pre, and an SM57. i've decided with the 15k i have, i should get:

    an ldc,
    a stereo mic/stereo pair
    a small bunch of dynamics for close micing drums
    4 channels of pres for drums
    stereo pre for my stereo pair
    at least 8 channels of ad conversion
    at least 2 channels of da conversion
    a transperant monitor control unit
    a stereo di box

    (let's pretend i'm ok for cables, headphones etc)

    i have some ideas of my own on which products to opt for, but i'd love to hear what you guys would get if you were ticking off a list like this.

    (also, where should i buy? who's had good experiences where?)

  2. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    I PM'd you with some advice... (y)
  3. jimbo_baby84

    jimbo_baby84 Guest

  4. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mmmm... a clean slate - a blank palatte...and money to boot. :)

    Let's see, there are so MANY options - here's what I would do (feel free to ignore any and all of what I say here).

    *LDC -
    Charter Oak, Soundelux, Neumann M147 (choice, not all)
    *Stereo Pair -
    Josephson, AT, Audix
    *Dynamics for Drums -
    Audix, Audix, Audix (okay, and a couple more SM57s)
    *Stereo Pre
    So many options here - Brent Averil, Hardy, OSA, Vintech, TubeTech, Summit and on and on...
    *AD/DA Conversion -
    I simply can't say enough good stuff about the Lynx Aurora - 8ch inzanoutz and it sounds fantastic.
    *Monitor Control Unit -
    Presonus Central Station. It really does what it says.
    *Stereo DI -
    None. Get a couple of mono DIs. I really dig the Radial stuff. Get the GT Brick too - get a few of them - they're great DIs, they're great Pres - it's a win-win.

    That's my $.02

    J. (y)
  5. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    :shock: Jeremy! Am I seeing things? Did I really see you mentioning the Neumann M147 without being ill?!?!?!?!? :wink:

    Seriously though, the 147 is nice as is the 149, although the latter is a little on the expensive side, and I would probably look at other options -Microtech Gefell, Soundelux E250, Brauner VM-1 'Lite'....

    As usual, I'm going to declare my undying love for the AT4060. I think it would be a shame not to give it a try. Perhaps it is not as immediately alluring as the Neumann, as it works a very subtle type of magic. I would also consider the U87, but only if you have alternatives as it can be HIDEOUS on vocals if it doesn't suit the singer, but when it works it's wonderful.

    John Stafford
  6. jimbo_baby84

    jimbo_baby84 Guest

    thanks guys.

    what i was thinking was:

    stereo pair - either a pair of dpa's or 2 aea r84s $3400 or $2000

    dynamics - audix dp5 set $659

    drum pres - api 3124+ $2500

    stereo pre - gordon model 5 $3500

    apogee rosetta 800 $3000

    monitor control - spl mtc $850 - total so far $12509 (with r84s) or $13909 (with dpa's)

    ldc - god knows. i could have spent the whole 15k on an elam251! but about the best i can do with what i'm left with is a u87 (so at least my add can have the world "Neumann" in it)

    one thing that confuses me is the differences between the old u87s and the new ones. i'm guessing the vintage ones are more highly sort after. am i right?
  7. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    There are some differences between the U87 and the newer U87Ai. The price of used 87s of both type is roughly the same, as there are plenty on the market.

    One crucial difference is that the polarising voltage of the Ai is 60 volts, while that of the original is around 40. The higher voltage improves the signal to noise ratio. The Ai uses the same capsule as the old U67, but the difference is very small between it and the old 87 capsule. The backplates of the capsule on the Ai touch each other, so there are only three wires from the capsule instead of four in the old U87. In terms of sound there is no difference difference in this part of the mic other than that cuased by the differing voltages. However, there are differences in the electronics, most notably the DC-DC converter to supply the capsule with 60 volts from the 48 volts received from phantom power. The original could be powered by batteries, but newer circuitry takes up this space in the Ai.

    It could be argued that none of the U87s have electronics that make best use of the capsule's capabilities as certain compromises had to be made to satisfy the demands of the broadcasting industry, but I would think Neumann are reluctant to change the familiar sound that has become so popular -whatever they do, somebody will hate it.

    Many people prefer the sound of the original, and hate the changes to the sound caused the updated electronics of the Ai, feeling that too many compromises had been made in order to 'improve' the measurable performance figures. This is entirely a matter of taste.

    One problem with buying an original U87 is that it has been nineteen years since one was manufactured, so you should be prepared for some hefty bills. You should have it serviced, and you might need to have some expensive parts replaced. A new Ai will sound better than most of the available U87s, as originals in top condition are hard to come by.

    Some think that the U87 is not as good since Sennheiser took over, but I must admit to being very pleased with my eleven-year-old Ai. I think it is a wonderful microphone that can be jaw-dropping on some vocals and some other applications.

    Sorry that this post has turned into such a long rant :wink:


    PS I was playing with an Ai that had a damaged rear diaphragm. The output was low and it was also a bit noisy as a lot of gold was missing, but on my voice it sounded absolutely beautiful. Go figure :wink:
  8. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Good reason to buy a mic :?
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Appropriate sarcasm aside, it actually is becoming an essential to have a Neumann.

    Due in part to this imposed ignorance on the consumer, names like Neumann and Pro Tools are becoming an evil necessity.

    It's great to know that I have in fact lost business to a hack studio solely on the basis that they had a '' matched pair" of TLM103's when it doesn't seem to matter any other qualifications.

    Tis a pretty shitty reality " :x
  10. jimbo_baby84

    jimbo_baby84 Guest

    yep. your average musician thinks a brauner is a shaver.
  11. TornadoTed

    TornadoTed Guest

    Don't get me started on this one!! It is frustrating when you lose work because of someone with a minute amount of knowledge and a few brand names in their head. I recently had someone who was going to look elsewhere because I had Cubase and not 'Pro Logic'. It was only when I explained that there is 'Pro tools' and 'Logic Audio' and 'Pro Logic doesn't exist that I managed to talk them around. Unfortunately it isn't always that easy.
  12. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    That's probably a good thing -God help us all when clients start asking for Brauners! Better start saving.....

  13. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Neumann, Protools- hey they have made the grade into the minds of clients everywhere- Its hard to get work without them - we can complain all we want but this is a fact of life...
    who said life was fair? :evil:
  14. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    Is the manufacturer of Microtech Gefell not called Georg Neumann & Co. Elektronisches Laboratorium? Maybe MG296 by Georg Neumann & Co. might bring in more business :wink:

    As far as Pro Tools is concerned, if a client who knows nothing about PT, yet insists on using it in spite of your advice to the contrary, I'd charge an extra fee for it, and then go out and buy an MBox. BTW My local big time studio that is regarded as one of the world's finest, and has a suitably impressive client list (and hourly rate), charges extra for PT.

    It's a pity the free version of Pro Tools won't run on XP.

    Given the type of music you specialise in, a client that chooses a TLM-103 over your Schoeps and MGs is obviously ignorant or has very bizarre taste in mics. That's not to say that the TLM-103 doesn't have its uses, but in this case.....

  15. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Well, not technically - they are seperated from Neumann now. What I usually say is - Microtech Gefell - the original Neumann pre-buyout.

    Yeah, I've thought about getting a Mac Mini and an MBox just to say I have PT and then charge an extra $25 per hour. I just HATE PT and don't see the advantage (except for the occassional lost business...)
  16. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    I thought the parent company still has the name but they can't use the brand. Anyway, their address is Georg Neumann Platz, so I'm sure that could be worked in somewhere :wink:
  17. jimbo_baby84

    jimbo_baby84 Guest

    i saw an m49 on ebay the other day and had a think about bidding. any opinions on this mic? i'd be mainly using it female vocals. it came with a power supply by blue though. does this change the sound an awful lot?
  18. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    If you buy this one, you can be assured that it is not a piece of junk that has been left decaying for the last few decades. When BLUE restore a mic they do some extensive work on the insides as well and replace a lot of parts; they are not afraid to blaspheme and will swap ANY part. Hopefully the owner still has the parts of the mic that have been replaced, as BLUE usually send these back with the refurbished mic in case you want to undo their restoration work.

    The power supply is not quite such a contentious issue. If you want an M49, you will find it difficult to get a better one on ebay. Most of these old mics are junk and at least this way you know you are getting something that has been looked after, so you will get a killer mic. Just think of BLUE's own line. Besides, now that they have stopped refurbishing mics, your BLUE/Neumann hybrid is one of a rare breed :wink:

  19. buzz

    buzz Guest

    Go with a MG Um70 you will NOT be dissapionted , same capsule as the U87 . There was a matched pair on E-bay for $900 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I would have bought them but I already have them.

    Just tell them it's ALSIHAD ( PT) if they dont know what they're talking about they will never know the difference.

  20. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    I've been looking at these two. Is the capsule not the M7 -the same as in the M49 and older U47?


Share This Page