A Couple of Patchbay Questions

Discussion in 'Patchbays' started by AwedOne, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    I trying to get a handle on wiring 2 ADC patchbays, but I have a couple of questions first:

    1. If I set up all my console inputs to be accesable thru the patchbays, do I then use mic cables with TRS plugs to patch into an input that is normalled (mic inputs snaked from tracking rooms into PB and out to console channels)? And is it ok to run 48v phantom pwr thr the PB?

    2. I've read that all the studios inputs and OUTPUTS should go thru the jackfield. does that include the spearker outs from power amps? And can I just patch thru to different speakers?

    Ow, my brain hurts! :-?

    thanks for any insight you can provide.
     
  2. BRH

    BRH Active Member

    I wouldn't put mic or speakers thru patchbay.
     
  3. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    To help me understand, please explain why not.
     
  4. Greener

    Greener Guest

    It's an irrelevant step in the signal chain.

    It may be handy but it's noise too.
     
  5. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    So, if you for instance, you want to have a vocalist sing in the control room, do you crawl under the console to plug in a mic, or have you hardwired a wall plate in the CR for mics and instruments, only using those channels occasionally?
     
  6. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    For mics and patchbays, see this:

    (Dead Link Removed)


    Patchbays are meant for low-power signals. If you want to route loudspeakers (power amplifier outputs), get a dedicated loudspeaker switching box.
     
  7. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    Ok. so it sounds like putting mics thru the patchbay would probably not be the best option for my home studio. It's really not that hard to crawl under the console the way I have it set up.

    Thanks for the confirmation about not putting power amp outs thru the PB. I kinda had a sneaking suspicion it was a bad idea.
     
  8. dwoz

    dwoz Guest

    It definitely makes sense to have your studio mic snake terminate to a patchbay...if you will be needing a lot of flexibility in your mic/channel assignment, and you don't like to go out to the studio to just re-patch out there...OR if you've got fewer lines than channel inputs...OR you sometimes go right into the board, but other times into outboard pres...

    The downside is the potential for extra noise in the connections.

    Normalling will not come into play for mic patching. If it's there, the channel input will dead-short, if it isn't there, it will just float.

    Normalling really comes into play on inserts. Since your inserts on your console are normalled, then your patchbay is normalled...you're really just bringing the connections out around to a convenient location, they should have the same config. Generally speaking, mic inputs don't internally short or normal.

    dwoz
     
  9. BRH

    BRH Active Member

    You didn't ask why?
    Go ahead and wire up a big ol' patchbay, and then come back here and ask why it doesn't sound good.
    Don't forget to tie wrap it, label it all and route it so nobody can see any wires..... professionals don't have wires showing.
     
  10. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    BRH wrote:

    I asked "why not" because your resonse was a negative:

    "I wouldn't"

    besides, I already read plenty of "why"s from googling "Patchbay". The consensus was that EVERY in and out of your console should route thru the patchbay. I found that hard to believe, so I came to the experts to see if that was true.

    Now I'm starting to see why there are a couple of threads here addressing the attitudes of regulars toward the less experienced.

    Thanks for the information. No thanks for the rebuff.
     
  11. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    OK, first thing, putting the output of your amplifiers through the patch Bay, frequently have common grounds. Many amplifiers don't want to have their outputs coupled to the other channel's outputs in any way. Plus, generally, you don't want shielded wire on the output of a power amplifier. Many companies suggest against that.

    Everything else in your control room is absolutely fine on a patch bay. However, in the case of microphones, your phantom power will be on/in the patch bay. You'd absolutely want to have your microphones normaled through it. This way, your microphones are always connected to your console without any patches necessary. If you should want to change input assignments, you'd better turn down your speakers. Otherwise the atomic like explosions from the phantom power being made/broken will definitely push the dust out of your speakers, along with their cones. The patching in my 24 track control room is extensive and requires 16, 48 point full & half normaled patch bays. Which requires a dedicated full-length rack cabinet for just those patch bays. Plus the grounding scheme can become quite a handful so as to prevent multiple paths to ground i.e. ground loop. So combining wiring for both balance & unbalanced equipment in the same patch panel can be quite unbalancing. And you already know I'm unbalanced enough so I try to avoid things like that myself.

    Balanced in an unbalanced way
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  12. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    Thanks Remy.

    Se wrote:

    I was planning on having the mic to console path normalled, and I ALWAYS turn the master fader all the way down before punching that 48v button.
     
  13. Greener

    Greener Guest

    In my experience, pressing buttons is better than punching them.

    Just trying to help.

    Oh wait... You meant something else but used language to convey something with a trend so you'd fit in... My bad.
     
  14. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Personally I have never ran my mics through a patch bay. Mainly because it might cause me to think, and in the heat of the moment, my thinking can be limited ;->

    I typically use it to run my inserts, and sends.

    I have also never ran high current connection in my patch bay. Probably not the best idea. Even if you contacts are rated for the current, you still have to worry about shielding and interference. The more connections the more doors for the noise to get in.

    anyway thats what I know.
     
  15. DIGIT

    DIGIT Guest

    What you do with the mics is one of the following:

    Either build a plate from room to room (easy and not expensive at all) or, if you only have one (or few mics) leave them plugged into the pres and then, have the pres on the bay.

    I have all my mic pres and all my A/D/A converters going through the patch bay that way, I can change pres/converter combination as I see fit. But, my mics are directly connected to the pres. I can change which mic goes into which pre either in the control room or the tracking rooms, using the wall plates and/or direct cabling I have made.
     
  16. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    I just got the parts and cabling to do that today.

    I see how that would eliminate the problem of 48v phantom power going thru the PB. Do you find that, as so many others have stated, this tends to add noise to the system?
     

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