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About guitars and room tone.

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by JohnTodd, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    I'm having a hard time with it. I've heard great room tone on many classic albums. But my room tones always sound like a slapback echo, even when I'm just using a reverb. I swear there is no echo/delay being used. I hate that slapback echo on a rhythm guitar! On the classic albums they sound like an "amp in a room".

    I'm using Amplitube for the "amp", and any number of VSTs for reverb. The "big boy" reverbs are doing the slapback, too. Like Waves, and the CSR classic studio reverbs, and so on.

    Is there a trick to this?
  2. blaumph2cool

    blaumph2cool Active Member

    is there a specific song that you point to for the "amp in the room" sound you're going for?
  3. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Lower the pre delay of your reverb, if too long it may create a slapback effect.
  4. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    could be a buffering issue. to the reverbs do this on other tracks like vocals? i'd try just a single track w/ amplitube on it, and use the amplitube reverb, see if that has the slapback. then i'd instatiate a reverb pluggin on the channel as well, and see what it does.

    you could be oevrlkoading the computer by having your buffers too low (in order to have better response in amplitube), or running too many plug-insat once. if not you may need updated drivers, or a different update of amplitube. like maybe the newest, or the one previous to your current ones. i've had to go from .3 to .1 of a program cuz the new one ran worse.
  5. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    Anywhere from Led Zepp. to Dokken to Iron Maiden for the examples.

    Buffering and latency isn't an issue, thank God. My system works great and I've honed my practices to be efficient in terms of CPU.

    I'ts not pre-delay either. And Amplitube's room mics does the same thing as a reverb send/bus thing.

    Other tracks like vocals dont do it. It's only guitar.

    See my dilemna?
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    the recordings you are mentioning were recorded mostly in professional recording studios with good acoustics.

    even the Led Zep stuff that a lot of people think was recorded at Headley Grange or with the Stones remote at some estate somewhere the guitars were often recorded at Trident, Olympic or other studios in London. Page used a Fender Champ or Deluxe and just mic-ed it up.

    another good reason to have a good room. you'll never get there with a di.
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Man, look at this picture and reminisce . I'm starting to think we are going to see a resurgence of analog consoles again. I think people are finally getting it. Thank goodness too.

    About Trident

    sorry to slightly derail this thread: Pretty cool having the option to add the transformer to each module.

  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Take note on the POV of the analog consoles 5:27
    And if they are teaching with an analog console, that generation will also be inspired to go that way
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    if i had 80 grand and a need i'd get an API.as far

    as recording guitars, try using an amp with a spring reverb and track the guitar with reverb on.
  10. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    OK. I'll just have to try new things. I swear I'll never mic a cabinet again because of Amplitube. I really love this technology because it lets me postpone critical decisions until later. I hope this digital stuff gets developed to the point that Ye Gods can't tell a difference.

    Please don't be offended. I'll do whatever I have to do to get the sound, micing included. Just don't wanna.
  11. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    so what was causing that delay? that's the question. cool inputs aside, the real issue was an un-expected slap in a reverb pluggin? has that been fixed J-T? we all know the merits of input gain/channels, and gain staging right. So wastup w/ a decent computer exemplifying a strange delay, and it not being buffer related?

    what is/was the problem, is it solved yet? that's the main concern, cuz it's strange.
  12. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    I'm almost embarrassed to say. My guitar tracks were in mono. When I slid them over to stereo tracks (in Cubase) the slapback stopped and the room tone opened up.

    I learned something. I'm happy.
  13. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    LOL...and I swear that, past recording some late night track where I don't wanna bum out the neighbors, that I'll never use Amplitube for anything other than a rough idea, with the full intention of using the real deal when the sun comes up on the final guitar track. Give me a real amp and a mic every time.

    If I have a choice between the real thing and an emulation of the real thing, well, the real thing will always be the choice I'll make.

    I don't have the room for a baby grand, nor do I have the room for a B3 and a Leslie stack, so I'm stuck with the emulation of these things. But I'll always have room for a guitar amp and a mic. ;)
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    i'll add that there is nothing wrong with making a decision. putting off decisions is an indication of a lack of vision, indicative of not knowing what one is doing i/e not having a clue. make a decision and go with it. you would have been lost in the days of live recording or even with four tracks.
  15. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    I started on four tracks. Good old Tascam unit. Loved it, and produced some good stuff from it, all things considered.

    As for creative vision: My studio time is free for me, obviously. I like the experimentation that the digital stuff allows me. It's not a lack of vision, it's like constantly reaching into the unknown to pull out something new. Doesn't always work, but mostly it does. It has a lot of ambiguity. Some people can't stand that, I rather thrive on it.

    As for live recording, etc., let's remember I am by far more artist than engineer. I leave the important engineering to the engineers, 'cause that's what they do best. Me? I shake my booty on stage and collect my pay. thumb
  16. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    if you have a tube pre amp, crank the crap outa the input gain, it really adds some credibility to the digital distortion. have you tried guitar rig yet? i personally like it better than amplitude, and it's got a slot of effects to keep the creative palate happy. dare i say it almost sounds real.....
  17. JohnTodd

    JohnTodd Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Ill check out GR5. I have it in Komplete 8.
  18. Paschalis I.

    Paschalis I. Guest

    You can also check out the digital pedals of the software.

    Some presets have delay enabled by default and if you don't know the software how it works by heart
    then chances are that there's something enabled and you don't know it.

    Sometimes the solution is simpler than it seems :)

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