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advice: best soundcard + program 4 recording vinyl to .WAV ?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by karnhall, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. karnhall

    karnhall Guest

    Hey guys,

    wondering if yall wiht your wealth of knowledge on this subject matter could best point me in a direction base don your opinion and knowledge.

    I have an extensive vinyl collection and am looking to record it down as .WAV files for storage and play.

    Im a DJ by trade so naturally, im looking for the best quality most efficent mechanisim to achieve my goal.

    I woudl really liek to elimiintae as many parts as possible, so a hih qulaity internal card with a phono input plus ground cable point is optimal i guess, then, what program to use???, whcih program is most user friendly with setting to adjust the bitrate at whcih i can record for example, mp3's at 192-320 or .WAV files im thinking.

    Any input would be most appreciated as i want to get moving on my 6000 record sooner rather tahn later ;-)

    thanks heaps!!
     
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    For software, Adobe Audition is good as it already has noise reduction built in. Also Magix Audio Cleaning Lab 2005 is a nice package. Sony/sonic foundry's DirectX noise reduction 2.0 plug in is also quite nice and has a specific setting labeled " vinyl" and can be used with most any popular DirectX supported software like Sound Forge, Adobe Addition, etc..

    Sound cards with RCA input hmmmm, a used Digidesign Audio Media III would do the trick and you can probably find them on eBay. M-Audio also makes some nice lower-cost cards and there are many others. You won't find any card that offers an RIAA phono input, so you will need a turntable preamp.

    78 rpm archiver
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  3. TeddyG

    TeddyG Well-Known Member

    Seek and ye' shall find(Or not.)!

    Today, as I was looking around for my tiny Radio Shack amp/TT preamp, $50 bucks 5 years ago, fake wood case and all(Even has a "crystal" TT input, I believe - though I'm sure my old cardboard record player is long gone..? I'll look around......), thinking I might try to digitize some of my old 100+ comedy records(About all I have left of the vinyl age gone by), I was rather wondering the same thing? The "sequence" as it were.

    I've got the LynxOne soundcard, should be "good enough", ey? I've got Wavelab 5(Soon 6, I hear, said to have much better noise reduction? We'll see. Can always buy 3rd. party "vinyl plugins" - "SoundSoap"?), also likely up to the task - , even a reasonable Denon turntable, with decent Stanton cartridge, but... where is the darned little pre? I admit I'd much rather have a bit better TT pre, but..? Be worth a try just to see how things go(It's comedy records..!?)... Did I sell the thing at a hamfest? In the last couple of months I have been though my entire attic, garage, closets, everywhere(As one ages one begins to "clean up", hoping to make the eventual auction easier for the children, I suppose?), no rememberence of the pre, or it's box(I keep ALL the boxes, long after the stuff is long gone, along with the manuals, receipts, etc.(I am getting old...)..

    So, what DOES one need to do a good job on old vinyl? Let's review(Hoping for comments)...

    ANY sound card in ANY computer can "do it"? How well? likely pretty good... One can always(Should always? May as well always?) "cut" the low frequencies anyway(Say what, below.. 80 hz?), and the highs? Weren't many on most records(All?), cut them, too(Above what, ahh... 20khz? 15 or 10khz? Depends! If you can't hear it, and it's all for you anyway, why bother to record it! Last I checked I was "good" to about 8khz!!! God! AM radio still sounds fine to me! Any sound card will do 80 to 8000!

    The "preamp". Any TT preamp - such as may already be in one's "receiver"(Remember that term?), or "seperate component system"(Remember THAT term! You're old, too!), should be fine. RCA plugs??? I would prefer a pre with "line-outs" that were almost anything other than RCA's, but if it must be so, RCA's somewhere in the chain, one can easily acquire adapters/cables/adapter cables(!), to handle any needed transition to the soundcard's inputs. Though I have XLR's on my SC, I would hope for at least 1/4", balanced, if possible. One should, at least, avoid RCA's actually ON the soundcard(Though my LynxOne has one! For the SP/dif input - never used 'it myself - hope I never will.).

    Soundcard - best you want to afford. If you want "pricey", investigate the Lynx Studios, line, the LynxOne, the "least" of the bunch, would do a great, professional job...

    TT preamp - Check around the web. There are pre's for $29.95 and pre's for $2,999.95 - take your choice... Again, if you already have one(The same one that you play your records on now?), it should do just fine.

    If you're serious about doing 6000 records, or even 60, I'd go "high" as I can, try to make it worthwhile and to make it last - you'll be at it for the next 50 years(6000 * 45 minutes each record / 60 minutes = 4500 hours worth of records!!!)... After about record number 6, I wonder if I'd still care.....?

    I know that pre is here somewhere? Maybe behind the TV, under the turntable??? The TT is just sitting there. Nothing resembling a TT pre in this "modern" system(Also Denon! 600 bucks at Sears, 7 years ago. The Denon TT, not even remotely part of that "system", someone gave me, when they "got out of" vinyl.). I'll look around......

    TG

    Nope... Not there either... I don't know......
     
  4. DUDE007

    DUDE007 Guest

    Assuming that you have a set up with 2 turntables and a mixer you could consider the M Audio product line. Depending on how good your mixer is you could take the output direct into the soundcard and record from there. If you dont have a mixer then one of the best options is to go with the M Audio Audiophile USB soundcard. Its not to pricey and I believe it retails for $250 US. For the money it sounds good and has all the digital ins and outs you need and most importantly it has RCA ins/outs at 16/24 bit recordings.
     
  5. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    here's a tip you may find interesting when trying to get the best out of your vinyl re-masters, if you really want to squeeze the best out of them....

    In the old days of making masters on vinyl, there is a gradual roll off the high end at 15k by 5 db, between the beginning and the end of each side. (Don't believe it? do a needle drop on the first track, and then as soon as possible, do another needle drop on the last track, and note the subtle difference. It's not something you'd notice if you played the LP in real time - too slow a change, and not noticable otherwise.)

    This is also why many of the worst tracks were relegated to the end of an LP side. The real sweet spot isn't the very beginning, either, but sales and human nature being what it was, vinyl records always had the best tracks at the front, and the worst ones for last. Few people noticed or cared, actually. For a long time, it worked just fine.

    If you don't have a variable-EQ-over-time function in your DAW to compensate for this (Sound Forge does, I believe), here's something you can try:

    After you've declicked and de-rumbled, etc., line up two copies of the waveform (copy and paste the second one below the first) on the timeline in your DAW.

    Leave the first waveform alone, as-is; on the second (copied) waveform below, create a curve to boost the EQ by 5 db, shelving at 15K. (If you can't create a "Virtual" or non-destructive copy of this in your particular DAW, then simply make a new copy, but with the 5 db boost.)

    Now, the fun part is this: After you've put the normal waveform over top of the boosted waveform, make sure you've aligned them right down to the single sample. (This is critical to prevent phasing, etc.) Have the top waveform do a slow fade out from beginning to end, and have the second (lower) wavform do a slow fade IN from beginning to end. (You'll be cross-fading the normal file into the EQ'd file, over the length of the playing time of the entire side.)

    If you've done it right, you'll essentially have negated the 5 db drop in EQ, and your latter tracks will shine (almost) as brightly as the first few.

    Remember, too there were many RIAA EQ curves that were used in LPs and 45's. You may want to do a little research into this as well, esp when setting up your preamp. (Some vintage preamps have these curves available as dial-ins for the preamp itself. Try google for more info this.)

    There's a host of other problems and issues with the ballastics of properly tracking vinyl during the cutting as well as the playback process, but this will get you started, and may give you better results that you thought.....give it a try and see what you think!
     
  6. nonstatic

    nonstatic Guest

    Actually, there are quite a few soundcards with RCA inputs AND RIAA preamps. Off the top of my head:

    Terratec DMX 6fire (internal)
    Presonus Inspire (external)
    ESI U46DJ (external)
    RME Hammerfall DSP RPM (internal and external)

    I would advise you NOT to use denoising/declicking/de-anything. MAYBE the rumble filter would work but if you properly isolate your decks from their resting surface, you wouldn't need that either. You've got a big collection, invest in a good record cleaner. You can get a vacuum-based cleaner for under $300, not much considering all the $$$ you blew on your vinyl. Or go on the cheap and use one of those wet brushes if it isnt worth it to you. Use whatever recording software you want. Also, it is not a good idea to run through a DJ mixer, which will most likely add noise and/or unwanted color to your recordings. Best to go straight to the soundcard via preamp.

    I am guessing you are going digital DJ? Why not just get the Stanton FS2 which will allow you to record your vinyl at 24/96 (not that it is really necessary) and also has phono preamps built-in?

    One last thing, keep your compressed files at least 256kb if you are playing on any decent club system, 320kb or wav/flac is preferred.

    hope this helps,

    --jeff
     
  7. karnhall

    karnhall Guest

    you guys are amazing!!

    im so stoked i found this forum.

    With all the info as above im sure i will find the right mix and match that will work best for me.

    Thanks heaps guys!!

    Karn ;-)
     
  8. pmolsonmus

    pmolsonmus Well-Known Member

    Terratec also makes a phono /USB interface that comes with software for noise reduction and eq.

    It's quite easy to use and runs about $100 bucks or so


    Phil
     

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