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AKG C 414 OR NEUMANN U87? recording hip-hop vocals

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by mickael, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. mickael

    mickael Guest

    Hi, I have an AKG C414 and I was considering selling it to buy a Neumann U87. I record Hip Hop and Mostly RnB and I use my Mics with an Avalon 737 sp.
    1. would you recommend the U87 for RnB vocals or is there a better mic for this purpose in the same price range.
    2. Do you think the difference between the AKG c414 and the U87 both plugged to the Avalon is that big? does it worth the money difference?
    3. Does Mic modeler do a good job transforming a C414 into a u87?
    Thanks a lot
  2. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    Mic modelling doesn't really work very well, other than to give a different colout to the mics that you already have. You won't get a U87 from a C414.

    I love the U87 and Avalon combination for pop vocals, although I don't own either unit, so my experience is limited.

    It's a difficult choice to make between the two mics, but in terms of sound quality, the U87 and C414 are equals. You might happen to prefer the 87 with your Avalon, but would it be possible for you to keep your 414 if you buy the 87? The reason I mention this is that with the launch of the new version of the 414, second-hand prices can be quite low.

    John Stafford
  3. johnwy

    johnwy Well-Known Member

    I usually go with the u87........great combo with the avalon 737............I have recorded more rap/hip hop/r&b vocals on an 87 than anything else.....that is unless you can afford a vintage akg c12, Neumann u67, u47, or a telefunken elam 251 (hey, who doesn't want to own an $18k microphone?)

    I never used these mic modelers because I have always had the real deal available to me and frankly I am a skeptic to them.

    ...and if you can try to keep your 414 like Mr. Stafford said...one can never have too many microphones, i always say!
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    C. None of the above.
  5. mickael

    mickael Guest

    so what would you recommend?
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    This should be interesting .... Let me guess, something from one of these manufacturers ...

  7. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Hip-hop vocals... I'd probably recommend a Shure SM-7. What I usually look for when recording hip-hop vocals is good articulation of the words with a mic that isn't too picky about the relationship of the vocalist to the micrphone [or will allow the vocalist to use the mic "handheld" if that gives them a platform for a better performance].

    The Shure SM-7 has great detail, allows the singer to move around, and is internally shockmounted should the vocalist want to use it in a handheld manner.

    Sorry to burst your bubble Kurt... I'm just not a big fan of condenser mics for hip-hop vocals... and in general not a fan of U87's nor 414's [though some 414's have worked really well in the past for female backing vocals and should not be overlooked for that application].

  9. mickael

    mickael Guest

    Well I record a bit of Hip Hop but my main application would be RnB (usher, brian mcknight etc... style)
  10. mickael

    mickael Guest

    which Manley would you recommend?
  11. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Who are you asking ... ?

    I recommend the C12VR into an Avalon 737, mostly because it the standard go to for hip hop R&B ..

    I was thinking Fletcher would recommend those mics ... goes to show he can't be second guessed ..
  12. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    There's Usher's chain of choice if i'm not mistaken.
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    If I were to recommend a Manley I would recommend the Gold Reference series with the capsule made by Josephson Engineering... though I would rarely recommend one of those mics as the Horch RM2J is [IMNTLBFHO] deeper, richer, and clearer sounding [for about the same $$$ +/-3db].

    For R&B stuff I would most likely recommend a lg. diaphragm condenser mic [but never the AKG C-12 VR... an AKG C-12 maybe, but not the 'Very Rotten' edition]. It all depends on the voice, the sonic character of the other tracks involved in the presentation and the overall goals vis a vis tone/texture you have for the presentation.

    I would never presume to suggest a firm signal path without hearing a whole lot more of the specifics... and who knows, with the right singer and the right arrangement, the Shure SM-7b may still be the vocal mic of choice... those things are often very capable of providing great surprises. They are really excellent tools in a whole slew of applications.

    audiokid likes this.
  14. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Why are people so down on he akg C-12 VR?
    is it that bad? Please enlighten me, I've never heard one... they shour are pricey though...
  15. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    In some applications I'm sure they sound fine... I've just never encountered one of those applications. One of the largest problems the mic has is that it's called the C-12 VR... but has none of the depth of a real C-12; none of the opulence of a real C-12; none of the air, 3rd dimension, nor 'intimacy' of a real C-12.

    The body looks similar [except for the hideous color scream] to that of a real C-12, but the audio does not support this contention.
  16. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    the price does...
  17. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    The price does what?

    The price of a C-12 VR isn't 1/3rd the price of a "real" C-12... but I reckon you do indeed get what you pay for so that makes sense.
  18. TeddyG

    TeddyG Well-Known Member

    Fletcher. How does the SM-7 compare to the RE-20 and Senheiser 421, in such application, or for general VO?

    And, if handheld is the preferred method, are there any "actual" hand held mics that would do a really good job? All of the above would seem rather "large", even if "usable"....

    Also I wonder about the above mics abilities to reject "hand-holding" noises...

    Actually, I question using any of them without a really good external shock mount? They all say they are "internally damped", but all I have used have benefitted from their respective spider mounts... What say?

    Teddy G.
  19. MakoBlink

    MakoBlink Guest

    soo, back on topic what is the sound quality difference between the c414 and u87? are they comparable?
  20. mickael

    mickael Guest

    yes!!! thank you!:) lol
    Sjould I get the u87 or stick with my akg c414 for RnB male vocal? if none of these two any better suggestions in the same price range? I'm curious to know what USher, justin timberlake,etc... record on.

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