Algorithmix -- HOLY CRAP

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by Cucco, Jun 7, 2005.

  1. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Okay, getting beyond the huge price of admission for these plugs, I can only simply state that these plugs are without a doubt - the real deal.

    Rich, I can see why you've praised them in the past.

    Here's the ones I've messed around with and my thoughts:

    LP EQ Orange -

    This is a serious mastering EQ. In my mind, there is no finer EQ available. I had settled quite frustratingly on the Weiss simply because all other models left me desiring something else. The Weiss was the only EQ I've ever heard to date that didn't destroy the sound to me. (The Z-Systems was a close second.)

    This "Orange" EQ is simply awe inspiring. First, any changes made using the eq are apparent immediately - in a good way. If I make a bump of say .2 dB with a tight q centered around 500 Hz, I expect to hear it. So many other eq's simply don't give you any real feedback until you get into agressive edits.

    The other thing I look for in an EQ is purity of sound. If I shift a frequency's amplitude, I don't expect another frequency to be thrown out of whack. That's what happens though, all the time! Not with Algo's stuff. It's truly almost eerie hearing only THAT frequency adjusted. It really takes a little bit to get used to. I am so accustomed to making changes based on the compromise that I'm expecting, not reality!

    Here's the really wierd part. I can't explain this scientifically (Sorry Dave), but somehow, with minor tweaks made I actually hear an improvement in the soundstage. Perhaps it's my expectation of degradation kicking in, but I really hear it. Can someone explain this??

    DeNoiser-

    I have come out in many cases on this forum against denoising or noise reduction tools. The reasoning is quite simple. Frankly, I think they suck - all of them - yes, even the expensive ones named after fragerent pieces of wood. So, following Rich's advice, I begrudgingly tried Algo's attempt at noise reduction. I specifically tried it on a recording that I felt was beyond hope and is so covered in uncorrelated noise that I actually put a disclaimer on the package for all those who purchased it. (It's a live recording of a High School Chorus in a wonderful auditorium with hideous sounding AC blowers and light cooling systems - 4 different noises altogether!)

    So, here's the chain that I used -

    Algo DeNoiser
    Algo LP EQ Orange (to take care of anything the DeNoiser removed or affected)
    Sequoia Room Sim (to replace affected ambience)

    To my surprise - this recording not only sounds quite a bit better, it actually sounds fantastic (considering the performance...). There are no traces of artifact WHATSOEVER!!!!! I have NEVER experienced this - EVER!!!! (Can I emphasize this enough?) Simply put, if I had used these products on this disc, not only could I lose the disclaimer entirely, I could have breathed SO much easier while producing, engineering and mastering this disc!

    So, now I have to sell a lot of blood to be able to afford this (but hey, I'll get some good cookies too...), but it will be totally worth it. I have yet to really try the ReNOVAtor, but it's next up. I have a pretty good idea what to expect with this, so it's unlikely I'll be blown away, but I'm sure I'll still dig it a bunch!

    So, in short - run, don't walk to your nearest Algorithmix distributor and drop your hard-earned allowance on this stuff. You won't be disappointed. If in doubt, send away for the free demos.

    J. :D
     
  2. FifthCircle

    FifthCircle Well-Known Member

    I've been saying the same thing for a long time too...

    Within the next couple months, look for an article in Mix (and EQ?) about the 6 CD special edition set of the music of Disneyland. The whole project was done in Sequoia using the Algorithmix plugins- all of them. The EQ's, denoise, decrackle, and reNOVAtor.

    --Ben
     
  3. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Yeah, I guess you have - props due... :oops:

    Is this one of the big projects you've been working on lately?

    Copies available??
     
  4. FifthCircle

    FifthCircle Well-Known Member

    Sorry-

    I didn't do the project (I wish), my colleague Jeff Sheridan did it... I just watched him do a lot of it when I'd be over at his studio.

    I've been busy with other projects lately, but nothing of quite that stature. I have a christmas choral CD coming out this fall, a big brass band CD, just had an acapella choir CD come out that I edited and mastered. I'm going to Oklahoma this week to record a festival that will go out on Performance Today... We'll have some really awesome artists out there (mostly Chamber Music Lincoln Center people).

    --Ben
     
  5. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    That's good to hear you say that, Jeremy; I've been considering the Alogorithmix noise reduction tools.

    I have reNOVAtor, and I can tell you it is truly as awesome for what it does - similar to your description of the EQ and Denoiser. I'm still learning with it, but it's an amazing tool.

    I'm working on a review of it, but I think there's more to learn about it before I finish it. It's one of those "why didn't they think of this before?" tools. It's a plug in for Sequoia or Pyramix (although they claim a stand-alone version is coming out), and it's not cheap. When you open a sound clip, there is a spectral view display that is pitch (vertical), time (horizontal), and amplitude (colors - the quietest being blue/green and the loudest goes from red to orange to yellow/white.)

    The logic is simple: You draw a box around the area you want to remove and select "process." (not at all unlike the "Crop" tool in photoshop, etc.) reNOVAtor removes the noise gently (on a graded curve, no doubt) and 'Fills in' the area with sound from before and after the noise. You can also zoom in tight for more accurate reduction and greater control; and nothing is permanent until you hit "Accept".

    It's not perfect nor is it foolproof; I'd suggest a few improvements like letting you hear the highlighted area, before hitting 'process', but wow....when it works, it's astounding. WHat helps it work much better is if the music is sustained, and the offensive noise is spikey or non-sinewave (music) like. Sustained notes remain unaffected, for example,while spikes and transients get whisked away.

    You can also see infrasonics and other wierdness you might miss with just an FFT display, it's truly a 3-D view of your music tracks. For many CDs I master, it's a great tool to take one last final look at each track to make sure I didn't miss something - either rumbly sub-bass, or highpitched gremlins.

    Between the almost magical ability to "Wipe away" extraneous noise and "See" the good as well as the bad, this is a tool that will just blow you away, and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.
     
  6. ptr

    ptr Active Member

    I've been saveing up for six months now to get the full monty of Algoritmix plugs! What You write here guy's just makes me more eager!!!

    Both the reNOVAtor and the deNOICER sounds like the absolutely best!

    /ptr
     
  7. ghellquist

    ghellquist Member

    Holy ....

    And here I was happy that I could afford Samplitude Pro. Not sure what to do.

    Between you, you have just made one of the most impressive reviews I have read, meaning that it gave an impression on me.

    Start saving I guess.

    Gunnar.
     
  8. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    http://www.fairfaxcryobank.com/

    It's a hot commodity nowadays...
     
  9. zemlin

    zemlin Well-Known Member

    Do any of you Algo users have access to Adobe Audition? That's what I'm currently using for noise reduction, and consider it to be quite good. I'd be interested in a comparison.

    FWIW, I have requested a demo - so I'll be able to compare myself - I assume - soon. I recently recorded a violin recital with BAD AC noise in the background. AA cleaned it up pretty darn well. I only messed with the Samplitude denoiser for a few minutes, but that was long enough for me to get the impression that it doesn't hold a candle to Auditions NR tool.
     
  10. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Hey Karl,

    I've used the NR tool in Cool Edit Pro 2.0 and found it to be quite good but still had issues with artifacts. Don't get me wrong, it did milder processing quite well, but once you started to get aggressive with the processing, it simply caused way to many artifacts. It's possible Adobe made this better, but I don't know.

    As for the comparison between the 2, it simply comes down to this for me - the Algo stuff can be pushed rather aggressively before artificacts begin to appear - then you can tweak the heck out of it and then the artifacts go away altogether. True, if you try to go nuts with the correction, you'll hear serious artifacts, but any level of sane reduction is possible sans artifacts with the Algo stuff.

    J.
     
  11. CEDAR Retouch

    Actually, they did! CEDAR Retouch has been doing exactly this since before reNOVAtor came along. I think there may even be a huff over how similar it is...

    I've never used the Algorithmix version, but I agree that this kind of software is a must in the digital age of strange noises, chair squeaks, coughs, whathaveyou. Retouch works incredibly well, but for those tricky or longer noises it does require a real art, just like editing. So keep fooling with it... try small individual horizontal pieces on top of each other instead of one long vertical on a noise, for example. I agree and I don't see how a mastering engineer could get by without it!

    The Algorithmix EQ's and NoiseFree are indeed incredible. Very smooth. I think the NoiseFree beat the pants off the System 6000 Backdrop, and finding a great setting was much quicker than the same with CEDAR Denoise. It includes some great controls.
     
  12. JRCGuitar

    JRCGuitar Guest

    Hi to all! I am new to this forum and when I saw this thread I felt I had to chime in. I agree with all of the above posting regarding all of the algotithmix plug-ins. They are all phenomenal! I first started using the windows stand-alone version of reNOVAtor this year and I have been continually shocked by how fantastic it is. I have done a few restoration projects for some of my clients and they have amazed as well.

    After using reNOVAtor, I then became interested in the other plug-ins. I tried using NoiseFree to remove AC rumble from a solo violin recording of Bach and the result was amazing. The recording was unusable prior to using NoiesFree. After ruuning it through NoiseFree it removed 99% of the AC rumble without any artifacts!

    Then I had a client who is one of the first violinist for the LA Philharmonic that wanted me to "bring out the violin solo" in a previosly recorded violin and chamber orchestra recording. I used the Algorithmix Linear Phase EQ Red and I was again shocked. I never thought that one could have such precise and artifact-free and natural sounding EQ until I used the EQs by Algorithmix.

    As far as I am concerned these guys make the best plug-ins on the planet and if you are serious about your audio take a good look at the Algorithmix plug-ins. Yuo can request Demos from their website. It was the best money that I ever spent.

    I recently found out that there is a version of reNOVAtor that can be used within Wavelab 5 and soon to be used within Nuendo 3.
     
  13. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    I downloaded the demo, but I can't open the EQs in Samplitude. The authorisation went ok, but the only one I have been able to use is reNOVAtor, and it's a wonderful tool. Things don't sound like they've been messed with -which is really cool! You change something and it sounds like it was meant to be that way. I think that is seriously impressive!


    I've been really interested in an EQ that doesn't cause phase anomalies, so I'm more than a little disappointed that I can't use the EQ demos. I REALLY wanted to be able to play with these :cry:

    John
     
  14. foldedpath

    foldedpath Guest

    As I understand it, a program needs additional programming hooks to work with this plugin series (other than Renovator), and this is one of the ways that Samplitude is intentionally crippled, to differentiate it from Sequoia.

    So for us Samplitude owners, we have to add the cost of the Sequoia upgrade before we can even consider these plugins.
     
  15. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clearing that up. I looked at the documentation and right enough it said that Sequoia was required for the demo, but on the website it says Sam7 will work but not with full functionality :evil:
    John
     
  16. JRCGuitar

    JRCGuitar Guest

    I can't comment on the functionality of the EQ demos, but I know that the fully functional version of the Linear phase EQ Red and Orange are Direct -X plugins that should work on any host program that implements the Direct-X specification. I currently use both of these programs in Wavelab 4 and Nuendo 3 with no problems. These EQs are fantastic! They are the most naturally sounding EQs that I have ever heard and I do not hear any phase problems or artifacts.

    Try sending Algorithmix an email and maybe they can help you get the demos to in Samplitude.

    Good Luck!
     
  17. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I think only Sequoia is required for the ReNOVAtor plug. All the others you can load, but will give you the error that you need the WIBU-Key to unlock. If you send the proper file to Algo, they'll modify it for you so that you have a working demo (for roughly 2 weeks.)

    I had a little confusion with this at first, but I since figured it out.

    J.
     
  18. foldedpath

    foldedpath Guest

    Yeah, I had that backwards in my previous post, sorry. The Algorithmix LP EQ's are normal DirectX plugins and will run in Samplitude. It's the ReNOVator that requires Sequoia, although it looks like there is also a standalone Win/XP version that you might be able to use if you didn't want to upgrade from Samplitude.
     
  19. JRCGuitar

    JRCGuitar Guest

    Yea, there is a stand-alone Windows XP version of reNOVAtor that is available as a demo that can be requested from Algorithmix.
     
  20. I also had a chance to test the Red and Orange EQ. I was also VERY impressed by the neutrality and the absence of any coloration of any kind (pre-echo, phase anomalies, etc.).

    HOWEVER I am very much concerned by the CPU requirements to run these tools. On my 2.8GHz P4-2Gb mem system, I can only run 3-4 instances of Orange EQ at High Quality setting making it unsusable in a mix (freeze can obviously help but...). For mastering purposes, I think it is an awesome product.

    All in all, I finally decided not to shell out the cash because of the CPU hit issue. For that kind of money, I think Algorithmix should have provided an hardware acceleration solution, IMHO.

    Best,
    Thomas
     

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