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Alternative to pro tools?

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by nandoph8, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. nandoph8

    nandoph8 Active Member

    I love nuendo and I would prefer to stay with it. I currently have MOTU interfaces but what would be an upgrade? what's in between the motu, maudio, etc and pro tool HD?
  2. ghellquist

    ghellquist Member

    Doing what? I mean an upgrade for doing what? And upgrade in what respect? (Are you talking on impressing young ladies, only Protools HD will work. Been there tried it without, they were not impressed.)

  3. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    go with the apogee rosetta 800! that's a big step up from the motu! better than pro-tools...
  4. splurge

    splurge Guest

    Are you actually considering upgrading, or are you just curious ?.
    Anyway, Sadie and Sequia are worth having a look at.

    Good Luck

  5. idiophone

    idiophone Guest

    In terms of function, and the way you track, there is nothing that is PC- or Mac-based between MOTU (and its ilk) and PTHD. (I am excluding Sadie and Radar and the like.) What I mean is that if you're trying to speed up the drawing of overviews or want the ability to put reverbs on vocals without latency while tracking, etc., PTHD is the only way to go. Trust me. I just switched from MOTU's PCI-424 system to PTHD for those and many other reasons.

    However, if those things aren't a concern to you (and they shouldn't be concerns for everybody), then there is plenty to upgrade, in terms of sound. A Rosetta 800 is a terrific place to start. After that (or maybe before that), you can upgrade your mics and pres ad infinitum, and really get the sound of "the pros". If it's DSP you're after, you can get a UAD-1 and all the trimmings, or a Powercore (or just a better computer). With my old MOTU system, I used the heck out of my UAD-1. It's truly a remarkable piece of equipment.

    So really, there's a chasm to jump in terms of native vs. card-based DSP, with $1000 MOTU at one end and $15000 PTHD at the other. However, there is more of a stair-step thing going on with mics and pres, and you can climb that ladder pretty much forever. In fact, if you find a way to get off that ladder, let us all know - our bank accounts will appreciate it!

  6. dustbro

    dustbro Guest

    Nuendo is excellet editing software. I love it and use it every day. Unfortunately I also use PTHD every day too...
    In general, Digidesigns hardware sounds pretty crappy. The new 96K and 192K interfaces sound way better than the old 888/24, but don't even compair to the high end converters out on the market right now. On my current rig, I'm running a stack of Rosetta 800 192K's and absolutely love them. The thing to look out for right now is the new Lynx 16 I/O converter. From what I hear, it sounds amazing and is only $2900... not bad for 16 channels. Clocked to an external source, such as a Apogee Big Ben, this unit can do some serious damage.
  7. nandoph8

    nandoph8 Active Member

    on the rosettas, do they use a pci card or are they just firewire?
  8. nandoph8

    nandoph8 Active Member

    I run Nuendo BTW
  9. dustbro

    dustbro Guest

    My Rosettas are interfaced with my computer thru Lynx AES16 cards.
  10. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    What a crock. Be specific. What makes it better? Pro Tools is a system. If you are going to compare, compare the Apogee to something comparable in function. Oh wait! There is nothing. You have to buy two to three times as many interfaces from Apogee to get the same I/O capabilities as the HD hardware.

    Audio differences are subjective when clocked with the same house sync.
  11. nandoph8

    nandoph8 Active Member

    You work for Proo Tools, I think your opinion is little biased. Cheer up!
  12. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    I do not work for Digidesign.

    I have a rental company. I rent mobile recording systems. I use just about all of the major DAW's, but PT HD is the easiest to rent.
  13. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    Ahh but those subjective difference are why the Rosetta 800 may sound a lot better than ProTools HD's coverters. Your comment sounds like the on going debate about any D to A converters. "well they both sound good but (choose one) sounds better than (choose one).

    ProTools HD, which I do not own and have never used, is becomming the de facto standard for lots of high end studios and for that reason alone their converters have to be the best BUT if you read on the WWW many people are using the Rosetta 800 and others for their converters and one must ask the question WHY? If people don't HAVE to spend additional MONEY why do it? The reason is because people think that they hear more and with better accuracy though the Rosetta than the Digidesign hardware. If that is what floats their boat I see no reason to rain on their parade.

  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    I don't believe that PT is "the defacto standard" as much as it used to be. At a time when high track counts and ability to use a lot of plugs at mix rlied on the extra processing power the TDM cards offered, the TDM systems were the way to go but these days it is possible to do this with native power. Since computers have become more powerful, I have been observing a shift in the pro market from PT to other recording software, primarily Nuendo. Dustbro is a prime example.
  15. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    If you are on a mac, Digital performer is an excellent alternative for protools- plus you can use it as a front end for protools TDM should you choose to go that route later-
  16. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    Consider how a name brand or slogan gets embedded in the public's consciouness, it's an ad-man's dream:

    I need to grab a Kleenex

    Gimme a piece of Scotch Tape.

    Wanna Coke?

    Please go Zerox this for me, will you?

    The wind was howling like a 747 flying overhead....

    "You've got mail!" (AOL)

    Man, that dream I had last night was in TECHNICOLOR!

    There are dozens more I can't recall at the moment, but I have also heard something like: "Oh that track has been ProTool'd to DEATH!"

    It's become a catch-phrase, a noun, even a VERB, and an industry standard to those who don't know any better, or don't need to dig any deeper. They just want to throw it out there, mainly to make sure there's a standard being met. (IE: Professional, vs. toys & hackers). Those on the inside know, but it's just the way things go. Buzzwords are everywhere, it doesn't mean EVERYONE is using it, it's just a sign of how well accepted a product has become.

    I heard a guy at AES talking about how he handles the standard generic question from an adv or corporate client: "Do you use Pro Tools?" He usually just says, "Yes!" and leaves it at that. Or, when pressed, he'll add: "Well, something like it; the PC equivalent, etc." Meaning, in essence, that the client doesn't REALLY care what he uses as long as it's of the same quality and does the job it's supposed to do, within the budget, delivery times, etc. (I usually say: "I've got something BETTER than Pro Tools, and I'll prove it." If they're still paying attention by then, many don't care beyond that, it's just tossed out there for clout.)

    Of course, if it's a multi-user project that will be passed around among several clients/engineers, in several facilities, (movie/tv soundtracks, etc.) then everyone's got to be on the same page, and something like PT's is the best way to go. Many Pro sound people just don't have the time to quibble, it's about getting the job done on time and within budget. Throw a wrench into a big budget production because you don't like the defacto DAW flavor won't get you many call-backs.

    I'm lucky in that I don't have to play that game, but I am aware of it and deal with it when I have to.

    Fortunately, I can do a lot more, for a lot less than breaking the bank on a PTs HD rig that everyone THINKS they need to do a project. There ARE advantages to NOT following the pack, in a less crowded playing field, too.
  17. nandoph8

    nandoph8 Active Member

    Stuff like that makes me feel good! I'm a Nuendo user and for what I do I don't see why I should switch. I'm extremely simple. I mic the instruments, play around with the mic placement to get the best "source" sound. I track to tape, mainly drums and bass. Dump to Nuendo, edit in Nuendo and mix on my analog console. I also use outboard gear and plug-ins. I figure I got the best of both worlds. I get frustrated with clients who have NO clue on recording but "know" that a studio that has pro tools is a pro studio. Some even know about Avalons (wow!) And frankly sometimes I rather not deal with those people. All I want to know is how to get really good A/D and D/A convertions so I can be confident. Sounds like the rosettas are going to be my choice. Thank you all for your opinions. I really do appreciate them....
  18. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    I was at our local electronic surplus outlet store recently and I struck up a conversation with a person there who turned out to be working at a local advertising agency and we got on the subject of audio. I mentioned that I do post production using Vegas 5.0 and he asked if I had Pro Tools. I replied "no, but I have something that is just as good and works well for me" he said "well if you don't have Pro Tools you can't be a professional studio" Anyway the discussion went down hill from their and I asked him if he had ever done any work at my mentor's studio, which is all Fairlight equipped. He said no but my friend can't be in professional audio if he does not have Pro Tools. (Talk about brain washed.)

    My mentor's studio IS the only place that does professional commercial production in this area and some of his clients are McDonalds and the state wide Lottery. Anyway the more I talked to this advertising person the more I understood that he was believing all the BS that Digidesign is "advertising" and he was so brain washed that he belived that if you did not have PT you were not a professional. I gave him my business card and got his in return but I doubt I will ever see him in my studio since I do not have a ProTools rig. I guess if I owned the M-Box people would be flocking to my studio since I could officially say I had "Pro Tools"

    What a load of CRAP!
  19. MrPhil

    MrPhil Guest


    Soundscape :cool:
  20. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    I hear ya, Tom. What that guy is doing is showing his own fear and ignorance.

    I spent some time in the corporate AV world, and for a while, all anyone wanted to hire was the Apogee speaker system. It all came down to size, appearance (hanging from the ceiling truss) and pedigree. (Hey, all the theaters in NYC on Broadway are using 'em, it's gotta be good, and nothing ELSE could do the job, right????) Some sound companies got more work than others just because they had those speakers in stock and in use. (The actual SOUND of the box was of course bandied about, but I never heard anything truly scientific about it.)

    The nauseating thing about it (and this is NOT a shot at Apogee, they are indeed fine speakers) it that people stop THINKING logically and intelligently about choices at this point. (Same for choosing PTs). They really don't KNOW enough to think on a larger scale, so they just run with the pack, going with what everyone ELSE tells them to do. This mindset will be successful for a while, as long as the model works for the general public.

    In time, the model changes, collapses or goes away, and the sheep/lemmings have to find a new leader, or they simply wander off in search of something elsewhere.

    PT's is a fine system, and the industry standard for good reason. But the pinheads who slam anything else as "non-pro" are only showing their limited thinking and inability to act independently. You're right in that you'll probably not hear from him any time soon. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you really don't need that kind of hassle anyway. Let 'em roam elsewhere, and pay someone else to put up with his limited vision.

    No idea how Apogee's are faring in the corporate AV world nowadays, either.

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