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ANOTHER drum sound thread

Discussion in 'Drums' started by jdsdj98, May 16, 2003.

  1. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Just for the record, I'm mainly a VO/post engineer.

    So I'm recording a project for some friends, and we're presently tracking drums. Been pretty happy with the sounds so far, but I'm wanting to tweak the cymbal sound a little. This drummer stays away from his hat a lot in favor of his ride, and often gets off the bell and starts driving it more into a crash sound. Problem is it sometimes gets a little "clangy". I'm wanting more sizzle out of the overheads. Here's the setup:

    Kick - Beta 52
    Snare - SM57
    4 toms (2 rack, 2 floor) - SM57, SM57, Superlux CM-H8B (LD condenser), Groove Tubes GT66
    Hat - Octava MC012
    Snare Bottom/Kick beater side - Blue Baby Bottle
    Ride - Octava MC012
    Overheads - 3 Superlux CM-H8B

    I've been thinking of pulling the 3 overheads, picking up another SD condenser (probably a 451) for the hat, and using a pair of SD condensers in X-Y as overheads. I really don't want to create any phase issues using the 3 overheads. It's a physically large kit, thus the decision to use 3 OH's. It's been pretty difficult to build the overall drum sound around the overheads, since he's so cymbal happy. This is being recorded in the band's soundproof basement rehearsal space, so room mics really wouldn't be beneficial, I think. The desire here is very much an up front, in your face, powerful drum sound, so a good mix of the close mics is gonna be the route to go. The rest of the setup is very much on the "project" level, an 01V into a digi001. Wish we had some outboard pre's. So, there's the details. Bottom line - more "sizzle" and less "clang" out of my overheads. Suggestions?
     
  2. tmix

    tmix Guest

    Assuming you are not getting too much Cymbals in your close miced tom mics, You may have to resort to rolling off the EQ on the overheads below 500-600hz and just use the sheen part of the overheads.
     
  3. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Thanks, Tom. I've actually been trying that exact approach on playback so far, and it helps a little, but not much. I've got good rejection in the tom mics, yes. I guess I'm looking to avoid a situation where I have to "fix it in the mix." If I can solve this with mic selection/placement, I'll be happy. Although I really do think it may be a case where it's just the way he plays and the way his cymbals sound. The ride sounds great, lots of sheen, when he's on the bell. It's when he gets outside of it and also gets into using some of his crashes as rides that the problem rears its ugly head.
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Cycle60,
    I think you are on the right track with your idea to use fewer O/Hs and to go with the 451s. I haven't heard the reissues but I have a matched pair of ORTF 451s and a couple others and my experience with them is the are a bit thin sounding without a lot of mid and low end. Especially when they aren't being used close up where the proximity effect comes into play. I have always found them to be excellent for getting that silky sheen on the top end for cymbals. The problem may also lie in the actual cymbal itself. If it's one of those super thick jobs, they are just plain mid rangy and "clangy". As I have said before, drummers just seem to like things that have obnoxious tones. Kurt
     
  5. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    The band's gonna buy me a 451 as part of the payment for the job, and I'm gonna pay for one as well, meaning I'll be picking up a matched pair to use as OH's. I tried out some budget SD's as OH's last night, and it made a world of difference. However, closer examination revealed that out of his 4 main cymbals, 3 were rides and only one is a crash, so yes, Kurt, we're dealing with some thick, clangy cymbals. Guess I'll just make the best of it.
     
  6. tmix

    tmix Guest

    I have found (being a drummer ) obnoxious stuff works fine for live where you are trying to cut through a wall of sound, but in the studio I have bought and used the thinnest smallest set of cymbals I can find. It makes a WORLD of difference. You don't have all the problem of thick overtones, and the balance between the cymbals and toms /snare seems more appropriate.
     
  7. NolanVenhola

    NolanVenhola Guest

    I agree. Good solid cymbals are great live. Thin soft cymbals are required in the recording studio. In my "studio", lol, I use bright, thin cymbals and things work well.
     
  8. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Got the 451's this week. They sound GREAT over the kit. His cymbals still have a little clang to them, but now we've got lots more sheen and swish to compensate. Thanks to all for the input.
     

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