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Anyone Know What Im Talking About?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Tuck, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Tuck

    Tuck Active Member

    May 27, 2004
    Boise, Idaho
    Home Page:
    I Heard The The White Stripes did this for Get Behind Me Satan and The Beatles would always do it. My friend was telling me that they were physically cutting the tape "splicing it" and then putting the two tapes together so that is was kind of like a 2 ply tape with tracks on both tapes. Can anyone tell me if this works or not and if it does TELL ME HOW TO!
  2. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2004
    splicing tape is when you edit by cutting the tape and then butting the tape up agenst another piece of tape. end to end, not one over the other.
  3. RAIN0707

    RAIN0707 Guest

    frob, if you get a chance listen to the CD Tuck mentioned...I just took a listen in borders cause I was curious...it's sounds sooooooo weird...I also want to know what the hell that sound is across the whole album
  4. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2004
    i own that album, it sounds like a ween album.
  5. alimoniack

    alimoniack Guest

    I think the type of experiment you're talking about would not only ruin the takes, it would probably damage your tape machine too.

    Nothing of that sort was used on Beatles recordings, but George Martin and the engineers at Abbey Road did do a lot of clever things with tape and plenty of the Beatles most famous songs were edits of different takes.

    By the way, for the lowdown on the Beatles studio process and step-by-step analysis of every session, every tape edit, read Ian MacDonalds awesome book "Revolution in the Head". Essential reading! After he points out to you all the edits and gaffes you start laughing every time you hear them.

    About splicing - When you splice takes together it can help to use a diagonal cut. The angle of this cut varies depending on the type of sound at the point of the edit. If the edit is over a very short break in the music, for example, you might use a steep angle to avoid cropping sound at either side of the cut. Long cuts are usually used to mask an edit over a more continuous sound. In order to have a perfect join of course the other piece of tape must have the same angle of cut at exactly the same point in the track so that they abutt each other closely enough to sound like there is no edit, the tempo is tight, the sound is un-interrupted and everyone thinks the white stripes can play it fine.

    There are other "dovetail" type cuts, either tailing out toward the edges or in towards the middle. I have heard of real experts making multi staged cuts - kind of going in steeply, angling back lengthwise in the middle and steep again at the top, for example. A nightmare only attempted to save the ego of a star and a record companies time and money.

    Supposing the white stripes needed a long cut made - for a moment, over the length of tape that has been cut, you are hearing sounds from two different takes, but if the splice was good and every track lines up well enough, it just means that each track switches over to the other take one after the other. You're still not hearing two things at once, though for sure once you know where it is you'll usually hear the edit.

    In a "two ply" scenario (I can't imagine what sonic benefit this could possibly have) you can't actually fix the chopped end of take one to the surface of the second without placing splicing tape where it shouldn't be. I suppose that while performing the actual edit, one could attach one end of take two to the back surface of take one and slowly drag the tape across the heads (forwards only!) to hear how smooth the edit was, then loosen off the tape, change the edit point, and do it again till it sounded right, but this would risk destroying the initial edit if you accidentally pull the tape the wrong way. You could then use the cut on the first tape as a template to cut the second, while it's still held in place. Of course the finished edit is still end to end. I wouldn't bother with something like that, get the idiots to rehearse it. Oh wait, it's the white stripes, wheres my razorblade?

    Other than that, two lengths of tape running simultaneously doesn't have a purpose and it definitely won't give you any sort of doubled-up sound.

    The Beatles did use ADT (automatic double tracking) on John's vocals a lot which involved a different type of trickery altogether but I'll leave that for now...it's all in MacDonald's book anyway.

    Of course these days accurate editing can be achieved by simply transferring all necessary takes to digital.
  6. Falken

    Falken Active Member

    May 20, 2005
    wanted to revive this one.

    opinions about the band aside,

    anyone know what desk or preamps jack used? I really like the tones on this album.
  7. Graham_Waller

    Graham_Waller Active Member

    Jan 26, 2006
    Kent, UK
    Home Page:
    Checkout toerag studio's at http://www.toeragstudios.com/cover.html I think that is where it was done. They have a Calrec M series and EMI 17 Valve desk that is from Abbey road. No real info on preamps so I will presume they used the in built desk pre's. The studio is focused on vinatge gear and the design in right in the 60's. Fantastic in my opinion. Long live analog
  8. alimoniack

    alimoniack Guest

    I believe it was actually Elephant, the previous record , which was done at Toe Rag and not "Get thee...". I've been there a couple of times and briefly worked alongside Liam on a record - he's a cool guy and the gear is stunningly old! You can't beat those Studers...

    Jack doesn't "use" pre's, he asks a nice older person to make his voice sound nice. I very much doubt someone like that would know how to correctly operate a lot of the gear at Toe Rag.

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