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Are cardioid condensers good?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Guitarfreak, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Or is there a reason most condensers come in bi-directional?

    link removed
     
  2. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    I'm not sure what you're asking....


    Microphones come in several patterns but there is no real 'better' to any pattern only different for differing applications.

    I would say with the large amount of 'budget' condensers that MOST are cardioid only.

    Certainly ALMOST ALL hand-held condensers are cardioid and hyper-cardioid due to their intended use on a stage.

    Cardioid patterns are tight in ttheir range and have decent rejection from the back and sides and hyper-cardioid is simply more of the same. This helps eliminate signals from monitors, amp cabs, drum kits and other stuff from spilling into the vocal mics and causing the soundman to committ Hari_Kari during the headliners act.

    Not a pretty sight.

    The only mics that are truly 'bi-directionsl' are ribbons. There are some mics that are patterned in a figure of eight that would exhibit bi-directionality but cant really be considered bi-directional.

    Looks like you need to study on mic patterns and their use.
     
  3. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Nahh, I know enough about transducer patterns. Though admittedly I don't know much about ribbons. I'm sure cc's work fine, it just caught me off guard. What would you use it for exactly? They probably pick up a lot of handling noise. More than a dynamic would anyway.
     
  4. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    You could use a figure 8 'condensor' for a lot of things.

    Rejecting the voice from a acu gtr track for example....

    Use your imagination thats what its all about.
     
  5. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Most condenser cardioid microphones are uni-directional, not bi-directional.

    To get a bi-directional condenser you probably are going to have a multi pattern mic in your hands or a ribbon or a modular microphone.
     
  6. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    I guess i must have worded wrong, I know that cardioid means unidirectional. I am just used to seeing studio condensers that look like this. And would this be bi-directional or figure 8, because I thought they were the same thing.

    So, seeing one in handheld form threw me off. And Link, don't you mean cardioid condensers? lol?
     
  7. ouzo77

    ouzo77 Active Member

    you will notice the cardiod symbol under the diaphragm (beside "-10dB")...
     
  8. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Oh $*^t, I just got owned.
     
  9. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Right. Just because a microphone is side address instead of end address doesn't inherently change the capsule's pattern. The Sterling mic is just a side address cardioid condenser with some attenuation switches.
     
  10. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Short summary of a complicated subject.

    In condenser mics the sound pressure moves a diaphram and changes its distance to a fixed plate. This changes the capacitance between the two which changes the signal. (It doesn't actually generate any current, which is why you need phantom power.) This is a naturally one-sided unidirectional setup so most condensers are unidirectional (either cardioid or hypercardioid). To get a multipattern mic you put two diaphrams in the same capsule back to back.

    Ribbon mics have a conducting ribbon in a magnetic field. The ribbon moves with the pressure gradient rather than the pressure making it naturally bi-directional figure-8. (The gradient is the difference between the two sides).
     
  11. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    I assumed side-address were usually bi-directional. I am learning more and more day after day that assumption leads to fail. :cry:
     
  12. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Really? I understood it to work differently: a multipattern condenser contains a pressure transducer (omni) plus a pressure gradient transducer (fig.8 ) and the pattern switch controls the mix of the two, the cardioid psoition providing an equal mix of both.

    ???
     
  13. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    I talked about figure 8 becasue you said Bi-directional in your first post. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  14. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Really?

    Okay then.

    A handheld condenser has handling noise taken into account..especially that Shure that you posted.

    You think these engineers that they have on staff dont know anything?

    One of the very best handheld condensers on the planet makes virtually zero handling noise. Of course it IS a Neumann.

    Like I said. Study the polar patterns of various microphones. Look at the burst graphs and see how the rejection is not only in volume but in frequency too.

    This opens up a whole world of posibilities for micing a lot of stuff all at once and relying on simple mic placement to control bleed rather than adding another set of electronics to the chain.

    Its almost like being a real engineer. :twisted:
     

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