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Basement studio / rehearsal room

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics / Isolation / Treatment' started by Didi_N, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hello everybody,

    I´m building a house this year in Austria / Europe and planned a rehearsal/ recording room and a control room in the basement, which should be used for band rehearsal and as a semiprofessional project studio.
    I already have Rod Gervais book and would like to have some input on the basic shape of the rooms before we begin with the basement, which should be in two weeks.
    This is how the plan looks so far, the thick red walls are part of the primary structure and can´t be moved, the thin red walls will be mounted later and can be moved slightly.
    All outside walls are made fom concrete, the inner primary separations will be made from concrete bricks (don´t know how they are called right..)
    Overall room height will be 2,70mt with 18mm floating floor with thermal insultion, so a room height of 2,50mt will remain.
    I planned to use the larger room in the lower right (7,20x3,390mt) as live room and the room in the lower middle (4x4,30mt) as control room.
    As we have no direct neighbours, our sleeping rooms are all on the first floor and I would keep the live room as large as possible I wanted to give it a try with sound dampening doors and windows and sound optimizing on the inside for first and only in case of absolute need switch to a room in room construction.

    Keller_Regiefenster.jpg
    Or would you integrate the door to the live room in the control room?
    Keller_Regiefenster_2.jpg

    I know the shape of the control room is not good as it is nearly rectangular. Would you deal with that or make it a little less wide?
    I would appreciate very much if some of you could share some thoughts on the projects basics.

    Best regards

    Didi
     
  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    http://recording.org/threads/read-this-before-you-post.26684/ Why/how are you planning of floating floor? Given the current setup i'd make the bottom middle room extend close to un-movable (left side) boundry. perhaps making the bottom right room the CR, facing the 'booth looking' room above it an ISo. just a brainstorm more than anything.
     
  3. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "I know the shape of the control room is not good as it is nearly rectangular. "

    Please explain this comment...
     
  4. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Sorry, my fault, I meant nearly square...
     
  5. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Would it be feasible to combine the two rooms on the lower left as the live room and use the room on the right as the control room?
     
  6. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    unfortunately this is the maximum space/ number of rooms I can afford for the project.
    But I can play slightly with the dimensions of the control room on the upper and left area, something like this should be possible, so at least the room isn´t square anymore and will have 3,75x4,80x2,50mt which gives me a ratio of 1,5x1,92x1

    What do you think about?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    If you have not built this area out yet...then you simply need to slow the pace down and get your ducks in a row.

    If you have drawn a square room, then you are most likely attempting to jamb too much room into too small an area.

    Show us what the area looks like "without" any of your interior walls and we can most likely get a better view and come up with a better alternative "since" we can get outside of the "box" that you are finding yourself in at the moment.


    Could you do that?
     
  8. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    thanks a lot for your input.
    Below you can see the layout with the primary structur which can´t be moved.
    The door and the control room window in the blue wall can be moved as necessary.
    The green area has to remain free as a corridor for the stairs coming down. Please remember that I can´t use the whole space remaining, there has to remain another room a shown in the pics above.
    Thank you very much for your time and effort!


    Keller_Regiefenster_4.jpg
     
  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    how is the existing floor, and ceiling constructed? Its nice to have access directly to the basement. the studio's part of the stairwell area might make decent an echo chamber. With a band rehearsal area, live studio recording, things get sweaty fast, like ya probably know.
     
  10. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    floor and ceiling will be made from concrete. Then we usually put 3cm of styrofoam insulation on the floor on which goes the underfloor heating and the screed. Also a styrofoam stripe of 20 cm in height is put onto the walls to separate the screed from the primary structure.
    I probably will do no screed and underfloor heating in the live room and install a floating floor on sylomer blocks directly on the concrete floor.

    Can you explain that sentence? the studio's part of the stairwell area might make decent an echo chamber
    As english is not my first language I don´t get it..
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    I'd plan on mixing in the west end of the structure. But first, get an idea of where the sweet spot might be.

    Measure out from your front wall, 38% of the length.

    Make an equilateral triangle on a 30' angle to the walls, from the apex. - Mark these 3 spots.

    The apex is about where your head will be, and your monitors should be on the other two marks.

    You now have a fairly good idea of how much gear you can try to put in that space.

    After that, treat accordingly with however much mass you want to.

    I would think the only thing that would be a problem, is if you really want to go through the financial PITA that "room within a room" (RNR) is.

    Since this is residential, you would really need to get engineering approval to the increased mass.

    I would tend to just take the walls as they are, and double the blue wall to the inside... and pray for isolation enough to track a guitar in that isolated room.
     
  12. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Hey, welcome, hopefully i can try and clarify my thought.
    If you placed a speaker in your stairwell area and played some music, and recorded the sound.
    You'll hear a more 'ambient' sound in control room. It's an old idea of using a reflective room as an echo, or, reverb effect. It works with live instruments, just leave the door open in rehearsal room, and record the outside area too.

    Concrete floors and ceilings are not bad usually.

    Max has good ideas, and is experienced. I agree with the idea of testing the west end of structure to put mix room, as a reliable starting point.
     
  13. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi ,

    thx a lot for your replies!
    @MadMax
    What do you mean exactly with the west end of the structure.
    What do you think about that room for control room? The ratios are 1:1.4:1.9 (2,5x3,5x4,75mt) and the triangle is set as you mentioned.

    Keller_Regiefenster_6.jpg

    I will decide sound treatening after I heard and measured the room first, room within a room is the last option when it will be definitely too loud what I don´t think.
    The most important thing at the moment is the primary structure and the dimension of the control room.

    @Kmetal,

    thank you for explaining, I wasn´t shure if you mentioned to use the stairwell as an echo chamber for ambience or if the stairwell would affect the liveroom badly, but now it´s clear, thanks again.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    This is the west end I was thinking of... Keller_Regiefenster_MD.jpg
     
  15. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    ok, that would be nice. Unfortunately I can´t afford that much space... The space on my last picture with the golden ratio room is already more than I could use.. So I have to find a solution within this limits.
    What do you think of that room? I already saw a lot of similiar sized project studio control rooms... Remember that it´s a semiprofessional solution, mostly for tracking..

    thank you
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but I really cannot comprehend why you can't afford a cheaper and better solution... unless you aren't actually building this - and your parents are.
     
  17. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    no I´m building this myself, but I also need the storage room and the remaining room as a workshop for drum building. Also my main focus is on rehearsal and tracking, not that much mixing, so I would prefer to have an ample live room more than havin a large control room.
    I will post a sketchup layout this evening so you can see the measures better.
    What about using the whole section on the left oft the blue wall for live/ control room with a conrol room solution fitted in the upper left angle? Or even make a one room solution with a seperated Iso booth for vocals/ Amps?

    thanks a lot
     
  18. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    here you can find a sketchup8 layout of the building
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gihjoplp5a0582z/Keller.skp

    I also tried to implement the layout from Rods book
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zs6u8ku3rkt8zz9/Keller_layout_Gervais.skp

    Same control room layout but slightly bigger

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s2g9id2tznma6m5/Keller_layout_Gervais_2.skp

    What do you guys think about that?

    thank you
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Sorry... being lazy right now (e.g. my general use computer is dead ATM), and don't want to put sketchup on tthis one. Any chance you could drop jpg's?

    Max
     
  20. Didi_N

    Didi_N Active Member

    Hi,

    for sure, here we go:

    links for download:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkvzpqvadbte0fq/Keller_layout_Gervais_2.jpg
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwehg05y7w3gxpl/Keller_layout_Gervais.jpg
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2aq469s9xbjsfk/Keller_sketchup.jpg



    Keller_layout_Gervais.jpg Keller_layout_Gervais_2.jpg

    Keller_sketchup.jpg
     

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