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Basement Studio Size and Flooding

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics / Studio Design' started by Mark All, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    What would you consider an ideal size for a one-room studio that would accommodate a band rehearsal setup, recording/mixing station, and extra amp stacks, guitar rack, etc.?

    We're looking at building a house with a basement and creating a studio within the basement--just personal hobby, not pro, and mostly going for isolation. My band rehearsal spaces have never been adequate, so I want bigger than what I have, but not bigger than I need, to keep expenses down. I've measured gear and drawn floor plans, but don't feel that's accurate at all. The size of the entire basement I think will be 800 sq ft and the studio would be no more than 400 to 600 sq ft. I thought 20' x 20' might be large enough, but now I'm not sure.

    Band would be drums, a couple of guitar amps, bass amp, keys, room for singer(s) and floor monitors. I recently left the band and so can't provide exact SPL, but loudest level would be to match an acoustic drummer hitting hard; I may buy e-drums to control volume.

    Any thoughts appreciated.
     
  2. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    I've been reading posts about others who are building studios in the basement and one thread contained an alarming number of posts about how all basements flood eventually.

    What are some of your experiences with basement studios? Is flooding bound to happen at some point? Should I revise my house plans considerably?
     
  3. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    I would start by investigating if floods did happen in your sector in the last 10years. Talk to neighbors and even your insurance company. The have records and risk assements that can help.

    I lived through a flood once. The owners sump pump failed and I got 3 inches of water.
    I had modular carpet that was easy to remove and I ran 2 dehumidifier for a week and since the studio had parallele open walls I did avoid mold.
    As far as gear, other than a few direct box and powerbars, and a few crackles in a floor tom, everything else was ok.
    The pump was replaced and put on a Back UPS and no other problems accured for years...

    The best tips is to place any critical gear at some heights. (computer and data drives, high end preamps and vintage gear).
    Some stuff can be replaced some don't. Protect yourself and use a safe backup system that puts a copy of data offsite.

    My current basement studio is surrounded by clay and is very dry. The studio is on a floating floor and most of the stuff is secured.
    I hope I won't live through that again, but I once had an issue with the hot water tank which busted. We are blessed to have a water overflow just a side of it.. so no damage accured...
     
    Mark All likes this.
  4. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    If you don't have any books yet on the subject, do yourself a favor and get some practical books on the subject.

    Here are two solid suggestions:

    Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros by Rod Gervais

    Master Handbook of Acoustics by Alton F. Everest

    While you wait for much more intelligent advice from someone better informed on building practices, who may say you don't need to get too hung up on room ratios - I would at least suggest you avoid making it square. As far as square rooms go, they can have a nasty overtone due to the length and width of the room having the exact same problem-wavelengths. Multiples like 20 x 30 can be a problem too, (don't forget sound is 3-dimensional, so you'll need to establish a ceiling height too - preferably not a divisor of the length and/or width).

    Since isolation is one of your main concerns, it will be helpful to the real smart people to know how close your neighbors are, and whether you're also trying to keep sound from the upstairs living quarters.

    In the end, you may be the best judge of how much space you need, and how much you can afford to bite off financially. Because whatever preliminary budget/quotes you get (unless it's a contractor who specializes in this sort of construction), it's going to be under by a mile if you plan to do it right. (Like 3x)
     
    Brien Holcombe likes this.
  5. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    I don't know if "all" basements flood eventually, but the chance for moisture/water damage are certainly higher just because of the nature of the location itself. Basements are where water heaters, water softeners, well pumps, holding tanks, washing machines, and all kinds of plumbing are resident - and as Marco mentioned, in his situation, he had a sump pump fail - so there's a greater chance of flooding occurring because you're surrounded by all kinds of things which either carry, transport or get rid of water. And, depending on the geographic location, the age, and the construction materials used with the foundation, you can get moisture and condensation without having an actual flood... and condensation isn't good for gear, either.

    Also, because it's the lowest point in your house, this is where water will go if you happen to have any problems above it on the main living level.

    Years ago, I had a fresh water line pop-off the fitting of a built-in dishwasher; it happened late at night, so I wasn't even aware that it had happened until I got up in the morning, came downstairs, heard the sound of water running, went into the kitchen, and saw gallons of water pouring down through cold air returns, heating vents, and even down the basement steps. Even with the sump pump working hard, the basement still had about 2" of water on the floor, but because the water had come from above, it also trashed ceiling tiles, ( my basement was of the "finished" rec room type) along with many of items and boxes stored there. Had I still had my studio down there, everything would have been trashed or damaged to some degree. Homeowner's insurance covered it, of course, but I had personal items that could never be replaced.

    I suppose the chances of actual flooding or moisture/condensation occurring may decrease if you are working with a more modern basement... and if there is inherent condensation then a dehumidifier will help, but there's still no guarantee that water can't come in from above the basement level.

    FWIW
     
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  6. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Hobby not pro ! : those are the key words for me. I'm sure you're not aiming for a 10k pro recording room.
    You first have to figure how much space each musician can live with and try to have a bit more.
    I'm with dvdhawk about square rooms the standing waves will create a ton of problems. Often odd shapes are better, but of course they cost more...
    Is it an all open basement, what are the dimensions and what's your budget ?
     
  7. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    Great suggestions on investigating the flood history of the area and elevating gear, pcrecord.

    Donny, thanks also--we just had a similar nightmare, upstairs toilet backed up and we had to replace that floor, the ceiling and walls below and all the flooring on the entire first floor.

    We've heard other basement plumbing disaster stories. But the isolation aspect of 3 sides of the studio being underground just seems the only way to go. Plus there are no rooms on the main level of a standard floor plan large enough, nor upstairs, plus I'm too old to carry my gear up and downstairs. :)
     
    pcrecord likes this.
  8. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    Thanks dvdhawk and pcrecord.

    Let me apologize, I probably posted this in the wrong forum: before getting to acoustics I just need to know how big the room needs to be. Should I repost this to Studio Lounge or something?

    I'm reading Rod's book now. Great point about avoiding a square room--the 20' x 20' example was what I originally thought might be adequate space, rather than to specify a shape, fortunately now I know that square's not good!

    I was hoping folks with a similar band / recording setup might tell me the dimensions of their space. I'll basically have a setup similar to the one below except I have more stuff (referring to the band and desk setup, not room size, windows, etc.)

    We're building the house from scratch and will have an 800 sq foot basement area--but if need be we could get a full basement maybe twice that size, but I'd prefer not to incur that expense. We'll need 2 or 3 other rooms and a bathroom. We can customize the floor plan, but not yet sure how much, since some walls will be load bearing, etc.

    I'm also not sure how to set up: like on stage, or the "circular firing squad." I'll mostly be sitting at the desk recording myself, but hope to have band practices and then maybe record the band later.

    Example of amount of space that's close to adequate:

    Studio Size 01.png Studio Size 02.png
     
  9. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    I recommand you download free Google Cad software Sketchup, enter the actual measurements of each instrumentists living space and do a bit of tetris fun with it..
    A picture is nice but nowhere near exact mesurements ;)
     
  10. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    http://www.sketchup.com/
     
  11. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    In the case of a plumbing disaster, there are a number of companies who make water detection alarms to alert you when there's water present. Some alarms just make noise, some alarms can also be tied to the shut-off valve of your waterline, so at least a plumbing leak won't turn your basement into an indoor pool with your gear in it. Obviously, you need to make sure the audible alarm can be heard inside and outside of your (hopefully) well-isolated studio room.

    Of course, if you're in a floodplain and the river's rising you are SOL. You're in hurricane country, so you probably have to be prepared for that kind of extreme rainfall.

    If it keeps on rainin' the levee's gonna breakā€¦..
     
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  12. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    Thanks, pcrecord, I downloaded sketchup and will give it a try. I've measured all my gear, but the hard part may be determining each instrumentalist's living space. :)
     
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  13. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    Water detection alarm, what a great idea! Never knew they existed, but we'll be getting several!

    The site is about 3 miles from a river, hopefully that should be enough. We avoided properties nearer the river. We plan on researching any flooding in the area, just not sure specifically how yet.
     
  14. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Prepare all you like, but nature has a way of exceeding your expectations. The flooding we had here two years ago was more than had been seen in 500 years. Lots of basements far from any waterway were flooded, and continued to flood for months due to the high water table.
     
  15. Mark All

    Mark All Active Member

    Thanks bouldersound, I'll ask the builder (and look for independent resources) about the water table. I read that sump pumps are put into houses where the water table "is above the foundation of a home."

    So is your studio in an aboveground room?
     
  16. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    I guess 4x4 is the extreem minimum.. you can think of 6x6 or 8x8.. check how your musicians move around at your next practice ;)
     
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  17. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Where I usually work is on a slab foundation. The other one is sort of a basement in a building built on a slope. The grade is above it on one side and below it on the other. My home, where I do a fair bit of work, is on a slab. All of these escaped significant damage in the big flood, but one band member had major damage in his basement. In some areas whole houses were washed away so no matter how much you prepare it's still possible to suffer damage.
     
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  18. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    This is common, but many homes have sump pumps regardless of that - some are also used to carry out ( up-pump) "gray water" from washing machines and utility sinks up to the sewer or septic line.

    I think most modern homes have them as a safety against all kinds of potential mishaps, but that would depend on regional codes, individual needs, etc.

    Of course, if you're in a storm and the power goes out, you're out of luck - unless you'd have a secondary backup power system to power the pump.

    But, as Boulder mentioned, sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Mother Nature is a lot bigger than any man or machine, and if she's pissed off, then we're all at her mercy. ;)

    In the end, all you can really do is to make sure you're sufficiently insured - and you might want to talk to your agent about specifics for your studio, and what type of policy or rider you'd need to cover your gear under any circumstances of damage or loss.

    d.
     
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  19. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    Mother Nature does indeed win every time.

    Some areas are classified by flooding once every 25 years, 50 years, 100 years. The tiny little village I lived in before we bought this place 23 years ago, had 2 of those "once every 50 years" floods in the span of about 6 years. I've seen some water main breaks on the news lately too that would be just about as bad, only more localized.

    For my slow-moving basement studio project (which sits right next to a spring) we used double Form-a-drain to form the footers, and put a bunch of drainage below the basement slab all running well downhill to daylight. We also opted to not put in any floor drains, figuring it was more of a risk for ingress than it would be of benefit for egress. There will be very limited plumbing (sink, shower, toilet, tankless water heater) in the building and water sensing alarms in any area water could collect. But I'm also using radiant in-floor heat throughout, so that means lots of PEX tubing, and manifolds, and a boiler, any of which could ruin your day - when (not if) something inevitably leaks.
     
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  20. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    A basic sump pump and drainage is about the best it gets, along with some flood insurance that makes sure there's enough to money for some new toys if nature strikes.

    You probably want PT footers, and vapor barriers, of lack there of, should be in the plans. When your making an airtight room, it important to control the moisture in the room. Sweat and hot gear can destroy intonation and tuning.
     
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