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bass drum question

Discussion in 'Bass' started by logamos2001, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    kinda lame i guess. has anyone heard the new green day album? the drums are amazing on it. anyways, the kick has this nice punch to it. can someone give me some advice on placement of the mic in relation to to the head to get a nice fast powerful sound like that on the new green day cd. and also the difference of taking of the head while recording and or removing the pillow. i would totally appreciate the help!
     
  2. RAIN0707

    RAIN0707 Guest

    First off, I highly discourage you from removing the pillow if you want more "punch" and "attack". You will get a boomy, more hollow sound by taking the pillow out. Also removing the head is really good if you want to mic the kick with 2 mics but if you are going with only one then most of the time you can leave the other head on. Simplest thing to get a good kick sound is in the EQ and mic placement. I would usually place my D112 or EV 868 mic about 1 1/2 inches from the beater head and just to the right of the beater. Then with parametric EQ I would find the frequencies where the bass drum sounded boxy and cut those frequencies about 10db. Then add a little high end back at the top to pronounce that "punch" and "beater". I big mistake a lot of newbies make in EQing the kick is that they think the punch is in the low end and it's not. The boom is in the low the crap is in the mid and the punch is in the highs. Experiment and play around. But I've never had to work very hard to get a good, usable kick sound.
     
  3. LittleDogAudio

    LittleDogAudio Active Member

    I agree with Rain but would add that an old technique could help alot.

    The "tunnel" has been used quite a bit and you should experiment with it.

    I keep a carpet remnant around the studio and create a tube with it by rolling it into a small tunnel. I'll place a few shorty mic stands inside to keep the shape. Then I'll place the tunnel right up against the kick drum without actually touching the head, but very close.

    Then I'll place a large diaphragm condenser mic somewhere inside the tunnel and keep moving it until I get a nice sub-sonic tone.

    In the mixdown, I'll use the tunnel-track almost as an eq, sneeking it in a liitle for some super low-end.

    This applicating works well with a hole cut in the head for a close mic.

    Hope this helps.

    Chris
     
  4. sonixx

    sonixx Guest

    Here's an excellent read...

    How to Get Great Bottom End In Your Mix
    http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_bottom_fishing/index.html
     
  5. funkbomb

    funkbomb Guest

    Buy a D112. Oooh, its so beautiful...

    I don't have to EQ my kick at all (not to brag, its a good mic) because the mic is placed in the hole at the right spot so it gives that nice solid thud that actually cuts through the mix nicely. I also believe the D112 has a built-in EQ boost around 4k.

    What i usually did before with my other kick mic, however, was use the spectrum analyzer on both a kick sample and the final mix without the kick, to tell me the strong points of my recording and also where I could fit the kick in the mix. If the empty spot and the strong points didn't match up, I'd do the same thing with the bassline and move a few things out of the way for the kick, or take away the low end and just have a high-end punch cut through.
     
  6. djui5

    djui5 Guest

    that's funny cuz I hate the D112........I'm more of a Beta 52 guy....whatever works for you though....


    Getting a good kick can be hell sometimes.....

    First make sure the heads are nice and tight...and tuned right......as out of tune kick heads can cancel out freq's.....
    Then make sure your in the right spot in the room...some room's can kill the kick sound in certain areas...so listen...if it's not fat and big in the room..then move it untill it is....
    Then your going to need a great mic'ing position......put a mic inside..and move it around untill it sounds warm and fat.......listen to the beater too.....don't want too much beater unless your doing speed metal.... Personally I've always been fond of having the mic below the beater and off to one side of it facing near the beater....this seems to give the best kick sound to me for most of the time.
    Then you can stick another mic outside the kick....the tunnel works for some......I've used it with success and had it fail also....the room has a lot to do with it......
    Now you need to run these mic's through a nice pre...not some flimsey pre that's going to kill all your hard work..........get a thick, fat pre and you'll be ok.....
    Save EQ for the mix.....you might not need it.....so don't eq the kick to tape....I wouldn't anyway......because what if.......you know.

    Checking your phase in the mix is the most important thing....just a little out of phase and the kick can go away quickly....so check the 2 kick mic's...and check both of those with the rest of the kit mic's.....you'll want the point where the kick comes through the best....
     
  7. rudedogg

    rudedogg Guest

    I know I am a newbie here, but I've been experimenting, and reading this forum for a long time now, and I want to contribute some of the things I've learned back here.

    here is how I've got my best kick sounds. I actually just recorded drums on sunday, and the whole kit sound was amazing. I used a d112 with no resonant head on about 2" and to the right of the beater. we used a powerstroke head on the beater side, and tuned it using a drumdial (i don't want to start arguments about whether this is a good product or not, but it works for us). I then took a couple packing blankets and a chair and created a tunnel from the kick drum out about 3 feet and resting the end of the tunnel on the chair where you would normally sit. I was gonna mike the end of the tunnel, but i ran out of channels (002R w/o adat) so i just left it like that. I then ran the d112 into a crappy blue tube preamp and into an RNC in supernice mode and got an amazing kick sound with great bottom and a really punchy flat sound (no tubby mids like i've been getting) I know I will use a little eq when i mix to get it sounding even better, cutting a little mids (~300 - 500 hz) and pushing the highs (~4k) just a bit, but seriously I was impressed. Everyone was very impressed with how the whole thing sounded. I'll put up some sound files when i get a chance.

    If you don't like the d112, try the atm25, i think that mike sounds amazing on kick drum. Also when you go to mix it (if u use protools) try the bombfactory bf76 it will tighten up the kick quite a bit.

    Anyway thanks to everyone on this forum, you have no idea how much help you are to a struggling recording engineer trying to learn the craft when virtually no one will help or teach you anything. I've tried to find a local recording studio at to even sweep floors for free, and nobody will give me the time of day. if you want to hear some rough mixes of older stuff, check out my band at http://www.purevolume.com/flyingdouglas.

    --steve
     
  8. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    I am not a D112 fan either, but they are obviously popular...

    I have been using a 3-mic combo for a while not...

    1) Audix D6 inside the drum, a few inches from the beater, usually to the right angles in towards the impact spot.

    2) AKG D12e (NOT the D112!) outside the hole in the drum head.

    3) A Rode NT2 in the kick tunnel (as described above by Little Dog Audio).

    I then mix and match the 3 mics to get the sound I am after, and of course apply liberal amounts of compression and some EQ. I like to boost the low end around 90 Hz (+/-) fairly substantially for rock stuff, and then cut somewhere between 200 - 250 Hz to fit in the bass guitar (I inversely EQ the bass to compensate), and then boost higher up to get the beater click.
     
  9. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    how do you manage phase issues? do you have samples of that work? what pres do you use?
     
  10. dustbro

    dustbro Guest

    [quote="inLocohow do you manage phase issues?[/quote]
    In the digital age, we just align the phase in our DAWs.
     

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