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Bass sound naff.... help please

Discussion in 'Bass' started by nrgmusic, Jun 2, 2001.

  1. nrgmusic

    nrgmusic Member

    I have been sent a track in from Europe to mix this weekend and am having real trouble with the bass. I didn't track the band but apparently the guy was using a Trace bass ( I think made by Trace Elliot) and a Trace amp and cab. When I put the sound up it was flat as f***k and had no bottom end in it at all. Straight eq won't fix it so I sent the sound out to an Ampeg cab I have in my live room via a Marshall head. I put a D112 on the sub port on the back of the cab and a 421 on the front of the cone for punch..... So far so good... Cos its a trashy kinda rock tune I used a 9098 pre for the D112 and an Avalon for the 421. I bypassed the compressor on the Avalon and pumped the bass into a couple of distressors. Sounded cool on its own..... however, in the mix I really need that kinda woody sound to the bass and I can't seem to get it at all, I have tried eq and busing the bass out to the Avalon and bringing it back on another track.... Damn I just can't seem to get a sound I like....
    Sorry guys if this is a bit basic but it's doing my head in..... Any ideas would be very welcome, I've just got to that point where I'm gonna leave it alone for a few hours and see if its a wood for the trees thing.
    Any help would be very welcome.
    Thanks

    Simon
     
  2. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Hmm... Interesting problem, let's see what we can figure out here.

    Many possible problems, too many possible solutions to list before narrowing it down. Was this track cut on analog or digital? Master or safety copy? Any other details about the song, media, etc.?

    Besides that, it's Sunday already. If you don't have time to properly sort this out, maybe try multing to a dbx120 subharmonic synthesiser.
     
  3. nrgmusic

    nrgmusic Member

    Originally posted by Ang1970:
    Hmm... Interesting problem, let's see what we can figure out here.

    Many possible problems, too many possible solutions to list before narrowing it down. Was this track cut on analog or digital? Master or safety copy? Any other details about the song, media, etc.?

    Besides that, it's Sunday already. If you don't have time to properly sort this out, maybe try multing to a dbx120 subharmonic synthesiser.



    Hey Ang1970
    Thanks as ever for taking time out to reply... The track was originally cut on 2" analog running at 30ips. It was tracked thru an Amek Mozart using its on board pres. I don't know for sure what the mic configuration was but it seems on a further listen like it might be a mix of a miced cab and a di but out of phase perhaps? It is a safety copy bulk dumped into Pro Tools LE which I have now changed to PT mix plus. I did try a waves max bass on it but the woodiness still just aint happening. I have asked the label to get me another copy just in case the safety was damaged in some way.... Have you any other ideas?

    Thanks
    Simon :)
     
  4. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Ok, this narrows it down to three most likely culprits:

    1. As you speculated, out of phase direct and amped tracks may be mixed together on one track.

    2. Incorrect 2" alignment during either recording, playback, or both. Or similar mistake or failure during the transfer.

    3. They wanted it that way.

    One thing all three of these have in common... the bass just ain't there no more! It's hard to boost a frequency that ain't there, so there aren't many options left.

    Have you tried that dbx120 yet? And if that doesn't work, do you know any good bassists?

    Best of luck,
    Ang

    p.s. You have checked and re-checked the wiring on your monitors and PT rig, right?
     
  5. GT40sc

    GT40sc Active Member

    Thinking about basics here...

    Modern Recording Techniques, 2nd edition, page 116:

    (in analog recording)"...30 ips response rolls off rapidly below 50 Hz, whereas response at 15 ips extends to 25 Hz."

    I really think you're on the right track with re-amping/Avalon/Distressors etc. (But try to avoid any more extreme compression settings, as it sounds like the track has already been nuked.) Get as close as you can with that chain, then take your best tone and re-record the bass at 15 ips analog. Put that back into ProTools, line it up, and go.

    Hope this helps, and doesn't sound too bent, complicated, or crazy.

    Best of luck,

    SC
     
  6. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    This one's kinda hit or miss. Since your in the protools domian, try using pitch doctor & run a lower octave on it. There will be a large delay, so record in & nudge it foward the amount of sample delay the plug in creates (around 2,000). Then, max bass or master X (5-band is best) the new octave depending on the turd you are polishing. I'd also run timeaduster on your orginal bass, so you don't run into phase cancelations.
     
  7. nrgmusic

    nrgmusic Member

    Hi all
    Thanks very much for all the advice. I thought I'd update you, I got a new copy in from Germany on Thursday, same problem, seems they did mix a cab and DI and got it out of phase. I have been given the luxury of a couple of days in Germany re recording the bass parts on this song and a couple of others with similar problems..... ah the delights of Hamburg.... can't wait!! :D

    Thanks again
    Simon
     
  8. germ

    germ Guest

    Hi. You mentioned PTools.I guess this is too late to help but I'm nu here so I can announce myself at the same time.

    -in Ptools. Duplicate the Bass TRACK.Select the Duplicated track and using MaxxBass Audio suite or tDM, Tweak the setting to get what you are after.after This is done, within maxxbass bypass the audio button so all you hear is the Maxxbass synthesis. Once you have this whap up the output level to as loud as is poss w/o clipping and process. You will have to nudge the lil bugger back to compensate for the maxxbass effect( and any inserts on the original) then mix both together within your mix as desired.

    Cheers
     

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