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Batting Around Concrete Walls?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Glide, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Glide

    Glide Active Member

    Hello,

    I am building a studio in our basement and was wondering what type of batting (or insulation) would be recommended around the concrete walls. Fortunately, I will be able to isolate this room from the entire house and it will have 9 foot ceilings. For the two studded walls you see below I will be using double sheet rock with green glue. Here is the sketch up model. The wall on the left and across the top is concrete. They are also framed and will have 1 layer of sheetrock. What would you recommend as insulation, or the best soundproofer between the studs on the concrete walls?

    Thx.
     
  2. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    It's better to move your Q to Acoustic & Design department.:wink:



    see you there
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Mass is your friend... the more of it the better.

    For your two studded walls, I would be a bit more inclined to to do a double wall;

    1. gypsum
    2. gypsum
    3. insulation filled stud wall
    4. air gap
    5. insulation filled stud wall
    6. gypsum
    7. gypsum

    The truth is that you really won't get true isolation from the rest of the house unless you address flanking noise through the floors and ceiling. You will also have some noise abatement issues with the HVAC system.

    As far as insulation on the concrete walls... What are you hoping to address? thermal or acoustic issues... or both?

    If you are looking at acoustic issues, you have a one room studio, so there's some compromises to look at... small rooms need LOTS of bass trapping for flat response for mixing. Lots of bass trapping will have a tendency to skew a nice room flavor to the flat side for tracking purposes.

    I would suggest getting over to the acoustic forum and also Rod Gervais' book
     
  4. Glide

    Glide Active Member

    Thanks Max - I have had Rod's book for about a year but cannot find anything in it concerning batting on concrete walls - try it youself....go back to the index and look up batting (page 318 btw). It isn't there.

    It really is a very simple question which should be fairly easy for someone knowledgeable on the subject to answer. What would you put on a concrete studded wall between the studs? A batting material, or just plain insulation, or nothing.

    Thx for the reply!
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    It's not a simple question.

    What are you trying to achieve?... THAT's the correct question.

    Are you needing to treat the space for thermal, acoustic or sound proofing reasons... or a combination?

    As soon as you can answer that question, you will have your answer.

    It might take styrofoam, batting, insulation, fiberboard, gypsum AND rigid fiberglass... it all depends on what YOUR priority is, and what kind of budget you have.
     
  6. Glide

    Glide Active Member

    Thanks Max - I would say the major reason would be sound proofing. Thermally it actually stays very comfortable because it is below ground. There will be 1 layer of sheetrock on it as indicated above and most of the acoustical treatment will be on that wall. Does that help in your assessment?

    Thx again!
     
  7. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    As Max pointed twice, MASS is the best "soundproofer", or better M-A-M, not the insulation.
    Are you sure about humidity and condensation?
    Why just one?
    Wrong.
    Usually R13 or R19, or something with similar density.

    BTW, your listening position (desk, monitors, chair) is 100% wrong
     
  8. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    The first one in new drawings looks better, except you don't need three rooms in a such small place. IMO, removing the wall from „iso drum room“ and making just two rooms is better move.

    In the second drawing CR is too small, in third it seems you loose too much space.
     
  9. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    It would be nice if you could resize you pics at 640 x 480.

    Thanks.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Glide,

    I agree with Groff... Loose the iso and go with drawing #1.

    Now, about your concrete walls and absorbtion...

    Looks like you intend on Room Within a Room, so IMHO, I think leaving a 1" air gap between the walls is going to dictate standard insulation between the studs to keep the insulation off that concrete.

    You are likely to have condensation issues on the concrete walls. You are not going to want a mold farm behind the walls in that air gap, so you should look to some sort of vapor barrier treatment on the concrete... UGL DryLok comes to mind. Maybe then put a styrofoam insulation board over that. THEN, create your 1" airgap and proceed with your wall system.

    It looks like you are already familiar with John Sayers site, but I'd pop over there and look at some of the basement treatments/construction methods. I would pay particular attention to studios in your same relative climate/geographic area.

    Also, get on up to the acoustic's forum and see what else comes to light.
     
  11. gnarr

    gnarr Guest

    I like the 3rd idea. If you'd combine the storage room and the live room. Maybe leave this small corner where the door is for storage.
     
  12. Glide

    Glide Active Member

    Thanks for the critiques!

    Do you guys have any sketch-up models of your spaces with overhead views you could post? I would like to see what you have done also.

    Also, does anyone know a moderator that could move this thread over to the acoustics forum? I thought it was more room construction based and that is why I posted it here.
     
  13. gnarr

    gnarr Guest

    Maybe like this?

    BasementStudio_John_Sayer_Design-modified-by-Gnarr.jpg
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    PM the mods... I would ask for a copy to be moved and leave this thread here... but that's just me.

    As far as a Sketchup... nope, no Sketchup drawings. I've got pdf's, otherwise, it's CAD drawings.

    They're in the build thread over in acoustics. You can also hit my website.

    The only thing I see as an issue with gnarr's verion is the displacement of the house's water heater and HVAC system... might be a bit more costly than your budget will allow.
     
  15. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Not the critiques, more like comments and advices.

    We all are on the same side. :wink:
     
  16. Glide

    Glide Active Member

    Thanks Max

    The Utility room cannot be touched Gnarr.

    Looks like I am going to go with regular insulation - Thanks for the ideas!
     

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