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Best TDM Reverb Plugin for Pro Tools

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by AlexColins, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. AlexColins

    AlexColins Guest


    I'm in the market for a TDM Reverb plugin for Pro Tools and was wondering what the 'word' out there is on the best ones.

    I would be mostly using it to enhance our Classical music (acoustic instrument) recordings.

    Any input is greatly appreciated.


  2. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    You are going to add reverb to a classical recording? Every time I work with Symphonic/classical and even chamber music (hence the word chamber) the natural decay of the hall and the richness of the hall harmonics is something I don't want to mess with.
    That said, If I were to use any form of chamber (reverb) on the works, I would certainly spring for an outboard unit.
  3. David French

    David French Distinguished Member

    Jun 19, 2002
  4. AlexColins

    AlexColins Guest


    Thanks Dave.

    I've heard of the 'Altiverb' but there's been a slew of convolution type reverb plugin that has inundated the market and I was actually fishing to get some input on which ones are the best.

  5. AlexColins

    AlexColins Guest

    I would certainly spring for an outboard unit.

    Hey Audiowstation, Thanks for the input!

    A good hall is ideal and that goes without saying but believe you me, even SONY Classical and the other 'big guns' in the Classical Recording field, add a little dab of Lexicon now and then to their mixes to 'sweeten or soup it up to taste. Not to meniton a little compression and EQ here and there!

    An outboard unit is certainly a consideration but in the long run it will have to optimally support the highest digital sampling rate at some point, which is 192KHz for now, otherwise you're back into good ol' analog side-chain.

    That said, I've been considering intergrating our Lexicon unit into the 'Mix.'

    The advent (yes, it's that time of the year) of better plugins will
    eventually and hopefully provide us with something we can use to our advantage as technology evolves and it's seems to heading that way most certainly!

    Any input on the Oxford plug in or the Wave IR-1?


  6. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    I will begin this post with my observations of the issues concerning "what actually happens" on stage with the various Symphonies and Orchestras I have worked with. Even though this is a "stage dependant" issue, I find common ground with them all.

    Lets look at the dynamics. Contrary to popular belief and even that of stone cold acousticians, In my observations, as the Orchestra creshindos, the stage actually becomes "more dead" so if you can trigger a slight amount of reverb during and only during those louder parts, so as to not destroy the "tails" of the hall, then some useage could be considered appropriate. I am speaking of on stage tails here and this is where we usually place the microphones anyway.

    I know this sounds the inverse of popular thinking but one who would disagree with me on this...simply are showing lack of on hands experience in the actual performing, conducting and recording realm.

    As you move air on the stage, you are also providing more acoustic dampning..because the lower frequencies travel strait up (most stages have 42' or more ceilings) If you transistion your reverb to accomodate the stage dynamically then you have a resulting interplay between the amount, the decay and the interaction of the artifacts incurred.

    The ONLY ways I know to do this properly (if proper is a good term here) is to digitally edit certain portions, paying attention to zero crossings of the programme so as to not allow these artifacts to show themselves. Automation in the anount and velocity of the reverb is an absolute must..and no plug in to date will simulate this hands on method..even the automated ones. You must ride the controls and do multiple takes until you find a satisfactory setting.

    It makes much more sense to simply place microphones at a known distance and delay the performance microphones appropriately (phase) so as to have some natural off stage hall to mix with the on stage performance.

    This is the way to do it best IMHO.
  7. AlexColins

    AlexColins Guest

    As the Orchestra crescendos, the stage actually becomes dead

    This is an extremely valid and noteworthy observation and a very useful one to keep in mind.

    With the precision of digital technology it is actually possible to do this by simply raising the reverb return gain to a desired level whenever and wherever it is needed. The same thing would probably apply if you were using hall ambience pickup microphones.

    You can also automate this feature to taste until you find the perfect amount of 'direct to reverb' ratio ambience or balance needed for the particular section of the performance in question.

    In the Classcial Music arena, digital reverb, if at all, is used sparingly which is why it's all the more significant to come as close as possible to the real thing.

    All the same, I need feedback on the best TDM Convolution Reverb Plugins out there today.



    PS Dave, on the Altiverb, you can't tweak the tails on those and on some of the newer ones, you can!
  8. AlexColins

    AlexColins Guest

    I just found out that our 'Waves Diamond Bundle' plugin comes with the 'IR-L' convolution reverb plugin in addition to the 'Renaissance' digital reverb plugin.

    I was also further advised by 'Waves' that the 'IR-L' essentially uses the same engine as the 'IR-1.'

    So I guess that takes care of our need for a convolution digital reverb 'plug-in' for now.

    How realistic and good it is will be up for grabs and research.

    Hope this is helpful to all.

    Thanks for the support and postings, Dave & Audiowkstation!

  9. pmolsonmus

    pmolsonmus Well-Known Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    Store in the FWIW department.

    I am by no means an engineer. Never will claim to be one. But I have trained ears and I have directed groups that have performed in some of the best halls in the country. By default we have to record my choir in a dead, carpeted classroom and added reverb is a must.

    I don't have access to the best Waves plug ins, but I have brought my tracks into studios that did and then were mixed and mastered by people I consider pros.

    A month ago I purchased an outboard Lexicon PCM 191 and the analog nature of the unit made the tracks that I mixed sound better to my ears than those of the pro.

    Before you go digital all the way, I would do an A/B. When I have some time I'll post some samples of both on Jeremy's site.


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