1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

big fake stereo guitars

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by casey, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. casey

    casey Guest

    I'm all for miking up a real amplifier, and have put in my fair amount of time experimenting with stereo miking and double tracking to get big stereo guitars. I used some amp sims to add to existing "real" guitars, but passed most of them off as not quite able to stand on their own.

    I was playing around with Amplitube last night and doing things virtually as I would if I could afford 4 different high end amp/cabinets. Basically running a single guitar track through multiple amp models and panning them around. After much tweaking, I must say it sounded pretty darn good. The ability to change any parameter at any time while mixing plus getting around the need to manually double-track every guitar line has me thinking about using it for the final mix of things.

    What are you guys' thoughts on using amp sims like this to get stereo guitar sounds by running different cab models left and right without double tracking? Any tips or tricks? Maybe re-amp thru a real amp and add a little of that back in for some added real-ness? Any amp sims better than Amplitube?

    Any comments much appreciated!
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Lots of different slants on this ...

    Anything done with taste and talent will work ... If one doesn't have the resources to have ten vintage amps sitting around..and a huge mic collection, the alternitve to not using something like amplitude is to not do anything at all.

    If a person has the amps and mics it is still easier to record the guitar and add the tones post tracking with plugs.. but it's not the same as playing "into" something ... The real thing will always sound the best but the windows of creativity plugs open makes for possibilities that may not have occured otherwise.

    It's a two sided blade.. will the technology take over or become a substitute for talent? Or will it move rock and roll through the next 100 years?
     
  3. J-3

    J-3 Active Member

    Back in my 4 and 8 track days I used a 57 on a good amp (blackface deluxe) with some nice pedals modded to suite my taste. Once I was in the digital domain I started getting more and more complex running multiple amps/cabs/pedals/simulators yada yada yada. I thought I was getting cool stuff, and I was...BUT I was listening back to some of my 4 and 8 track stuff and man...one mic...one amp...some overdubs..good arrangements....all you need. I've had Line 6, Vamp, GT-6, and UAD Nigel and the real deal is still way better IMO. Get one great sounding of every thing in the signal path and do overdubs is my solution.
     
  4. djui5

    djui5 Guest

    Whatever works for the sound you want......go for it.

    If you like it and it sounds good, who cares how you got there....
     
  5. hamish

    hamish Guest

    to get the wookie sound from star wars, george lucas starved a bear cub for a few days and tempted it with food....guitars are a little more humane to deal with...
     
  6. NolanVenhola

    NolanVenhola Guest

    that's pretty evil. george lucas is a bastard.
     
  7. boheme6

    boheme6 Guest

    where'd you hear that? sounds fishy.

    a quick google came up with this..

    I hope that's the truth.. the bear cub thing is just mean if true.
    "-)
     
  8. Intense

    Intense Guest

    imho

    imho the whole point behind double tracking is adding another unique recording to the mix. :)
     
  9. Ellegaard

    Ellegaard Active Member

    Amplitube is actually awesome, and Guitar Rig sounds even better and more versatile. The MAJOR drawback to it is, I think, the fact that it's so damn heavy. My computer is reasonably fast, it handles plenty of tracks and plugins and VST instruments without trouble, but when I launch a few Amplitubes I can immediately feel it. Have you experienced the same?
     
  10. casey

    casey Guest

    I can't get many decent sounds out of the Guitar Rig. I think Amplitube sounds better. But I do have problems with it. Check out the stuff from SimulAnalog. Much more efficient and probably realistic.

    I re-thought my idea of using simulations for the main source of guitars. I have a brand new, nice iso-booth that's begging to be used and recording at high volume at 2am will not be a problem. I'm going back to basics and miking up a tube amp. Somehow, running a guitar thru a computer while my booth sits there empty just seems wrong.

    I still love the idea of models/simulations and want to use them in the mix. I'm planning on recording the dry tracks on every guitar take and then running them thru a simulation and mixing it in. So, basically a combo of traditional double-tracked miked guitars and digital models.

    For those that are using models, do you use them to add something unique to your regular guitar sounds? Maybe widening the stereo image a little by using different models on left and right? Any tips, thoughts, ideas?

    thanks!
    -casey
     
  11. m oliver

    m oliver Guest

    I used Amp Farm on a record a couple of years ago and I mixed in some real amps which worked nicely. I think that no matter what, a double tracked part panned sounds better to my ears than the same track split a couple ways. If you get the two takes really close, you get that shimmer where it sounds mono when they're really, really the same and it jump wide when they vary a bit. Kind of like Lennon's vocals, etc. on Plastic Ono Band (and other releases). I miss 'Farm now that I use PTLE, cuz I just think the vintage-y sounds are nicer (native vs line6 vs IKM is a debate for another day).

    It is true that the sound is everything, no matter HOW you get there. If your little sister's Barbie MP3 player thru a hair dryer makes the sound you want, then GO!

    That being said, I've picked up a few things that have made getting nice sounds easier. I read something a long time ago where Joe Perry said that he turned his amps down real low in the studio to get a big sound, like just when the amp barely comes on. I tried it and immediately got a bigger sound. And use less overdrive or distortion than you really want to. Listen to how little distortion there is on some AC/DC tracks. Like Powerage or H to Hell, or even Back in Black. It makes sense, because the more you turn up an amp and the more you distort the sound, the more compressed the sound becomes, and in some ways, dynamic range can get you a bigger sound.

    The one bonus from using a less "gratifying" sound for me is that I start to play the guitar more physically because I feel like I'm not coming across the same. What you hear standing in front of the amp isn't the same as what you hear in the control room once it's gone through a mic, etc.
     

Share This Page